TD-4 Super Avante. New Off Road Buggy from Tamiya?

[dannymulder 766]

I was a little bit interested, like that they did something new and the plastics look good, I want to see the whole chassis layout, like the front shocks in the chassis.

But the thing what turn me off are ball diffs why Tamiya, I hate them for basher cars,  I never buy cars that have ball diffs, maybe they do a hopup with a gear diff.

[Howards 456]

2 minutes ago, dannymulder said:

why Tamiya

They are positioning it as a 'racer' and for dirt tracks ball diffs make sense as long as they are designed and built right

If they have used plastic outdrives then you have every right to be angry

[dannymulder 766]

5 minutes ago, Howards said:

They are positioning it as a 'racer' and for dirt tracks ball diffs make sense as long as they are designed and built right

If they have used plastic outdrives then you have every right to be angry

I hate them, I have a zahhak that had the trf201 ball diff it, never get it right and with brushless power they go bad very quik, put a kyosho gear diff in ti much better, had some other cars with ball diffs but I do not like them.

Come on this is not a race car

[Wooders28 4723]

1 hour ago, matisse said:

the  ball/gear diff for 1/10th argument is the RC version of Tubeless tyres for road bikes.

Gear diffs work better on high grip tracks, and if they've fitted the ball diffs with decent balls and not fitted daft plastic outdrives like on the df03, then they'll be a winner! 😬

Hate the wheels (on anything, they just don't float my boat), and the paints wrong for the car , but both are easily rectified, 

Just all boils down to the price.....🤔

[Howards 456]

Yeah I know they (ball diffs) are annoying 

The video literally says 'Off Road Racer' and they are driving it around a track....

[Wooders28 4723]

1 minute ago, Howards said:

Yeah I know they (ball diffs) are annoying

What's the hate with ball diffs?

With decent quality parts (OK, not the usual rubbish tamiya supply.....🙄) they work really well, take buckets of power and last ages! 

[Howards 456]

2 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

What's the hate with ball diffs?

With decent quality parts (OK, not the usual rubbish tamiya supply.....🙄) they work really well, take buckets of power and last ages! 

Some people seem to have no luck with them and continually melt them and Tamiya have done themselves no favours in the past by using plastics where they should use metal. 

I'm cool with them but then I know the tricks to build them right and how to set them up with a slipper clutch so that they do what they are supposed to do and do not melt or slip excessively. 

[Wooders28 4723]

2 minutes ago, Howards said:

I know the tricks to build them right and set them up with a slipper clutch. 

They do go hand in hand with a slipper, which this is missing in standard form, for now anyway, no doubt an upgraded version out, just before Christmas...

 

[Sweatpants 101]

do we really think anyone will ever be campaigning this car in a race scenario?  probably not.  For durability, the gear diff may have been the better bet as most people will build this car, and never adjust a thing on it including the diffs.

[matisse 1581]

22 minutes ago, Howards said:

Some people seem to have no luck with them and continually melt them and Tamiya have done themselves no favours in the past by using plastics where they should use metal. 

I'm cool with them but then I know the tricks to build them right and how to set them up with a slipper clutch so that they do what they are supposed to do and do not melt or slip excessively. 

Truth. Even on high grip tracks they are fine if you build them right. It’s only when you get up to the power of 1/8th and 3s that it becomes a real issue and fluid filled diffs are the only choice imo.

 

[matisse 1581]

8 minutes ago, Sweatpants said:

do we really think anyone will ever be campaigning this car in a race scenario?  probably not.  For durability, the gear diff may have been the better bet as most people will build this car, and never adjust a thing on it including the diffs.

Me! I think it will be a fine club racer, but not up to racing at a National level.

[Wandy 1527]

The chassis is a lot more interesting than that fugly body. That's three Avante spin-offs they have now done, and they have all been atrocious in the styling department....the Mk2, the Aero and now this abomination. 

I'm betting they will quietly announce another model of buggy on this chassis, completely differently styled and without any fanfare, and it will be much better looking. That will probably be the one that I buy.

[HornetRacer 1971 137]

My initial reaction was one of dislike....

....then I gave it a chance and looked at the details.

I find it a bit odd that the first glance impression you get is worse then when time is taken to look at it more closely. 

But like the Manta Ray.....will it be much better in real life than on photos?

Or does the camera never lie?

I will close by saying.....it looks better on the move than when stationary!

Which again is odd.......lol...... 

[SeanSean 6]

So I have a question for those of you who are more in the know than I am.

In the youtube video, at around 1:25 the car is midair and off-kilter, and the front wheels turn to re-align the car. Could that mean the car is equipped with a gyro? Or is that just the skill of the driver? 

https://youtu.be/LuMv1WvvqOQ?t=86

 

[HornetRacer 1971 137]

2 minutes ago, SeanSean said:

So I have a question for those of you who are more in the know than I am.

In the youtube video, at around 1:25 the car is midair and off-kilter, and the front wheels turn to re-align the car. Could that mean the car is equipped with a gyro? Or is that just the skill of the driver? 

https://youtu.be/LuMv1WvvqOQ?t=86

I think the driver simply turned the steering wheel on his transmitter.......

 

[qatmix 794]

Yep, the driver is just a experienced in offroad. No Gyro needed. This clip also shows how balanced the chassis actually is.. that is a big deal. 

Also ball diffs are not a problem, the TRF201 diffs are nearly indestructible, as are many ball differentials. Its actually good to include them if the kit doesn't have a slipper in the box as that will help provide some slip in the drive train.  This is a club level (ish) car. If you just want a basher get the TT02B. 

[matisse 1581]

13 minutes ago, SeanSean said:

So I have a question for those of you who are more in the know than I am.

In the youtube video, at around 1:25 the car is midair and off-kilter, and the front wheels turn to re-align the car. Could that mean the car is equipped with a gyro? Or is that just the skill of the driver? 

https://youtu.be/LuMv1WvvqOQ?t=86

 

The wheels act in this manner, throttle and steering adjustments mid air can be used to adjust the attitude of the car in flight.

it’s a useful skill to have to so you can land on four wheels, on the right angle for the down ramp, and to do flips if you feel like it

[Nicadraus 6198]

"The eye-catching chassis body (inspired by Tamiya classic, Avante) is designed by Japanese designer Kota Nezu of znug design."

Wasn't the previous Avantes designed by Japanese too? And they were made in Japan too.

"The 4-wheel double wishbone suspension is equipped with a CVA oil damper. Demonstrates high driving performance."

"Choose Between High And Low Type Wing Stays To Adjust The Downforce Depending On The Road Surface"

RC designs and technologies which were made since the 80s.

Honestly, the ugly plastic shock tower is a turnoff. They should have at least included CF shock tower, aluminum TRF style big bore dampers, gear diff, and blue aluminum turnbuckles to appeal the masses. This is a typical Tamiya marketing strategy and may end up like the over-hyped TC-01 which is very limited in my (and many others) opinion. I'm guessing the price of this will be around $300-350. Fully upgrading it will cost another $250-300 and end up with a $650 kit which will still be inferior next to a HB 418 ($420), AEB74 ($500) or Yoke YZ2 ($389).

Don't get me wrong. I love Tamiya and own a lot of their products (not just RC). But they should get better engineers and designers. This one doesn't deserve the name "Super" Avante until it is fully upgraded. Otherwise, it's just another Avante variant.

[dannymulder 766]

23 minutes ago, qatmix said:

 the TRF201 diffs are nearly indestructible

 If you just want a basher get the TT02B

you make me laugh even with carbon or tungsten balls they are not durable have to adjust it every few packs and they get gritty very quick, I put a kyosho gear diff in mine and run about 80 packs true it with a 5700kv motor no way you can do that with a ball diff without any maintenance

that is a winner with those weak plastic diffs they even strip with a torqeu tuned motor.

 

[qatmix 794]

I think you have unrealistic expectations of a ball diff. They are made to be maintained. When I raced my 501X with 5.5 I would service them every couple of meetings, if the track was wet then I would service them after the event. The TRF201 was more reliable (7.5t), So I would service them less. I just used the kit parts and when the balls got too gritty I still never went for ceramic's etc. This was just racing, not bashing. 

 

[matisse 1581]

1 minute ago, Nicadraus said:

"The eye-catching chassis body (inspired by Tamiya classic, Avante) is designed by Japanese designer Kota Nezu of znug design."

Wasn't the previous Avantes designed by Japanese too? And they were made in Japan too.

"The 4-wheel double wishbone suspension is equipped with a CVA oil damper. Demonstrates high driving performance."

"Choose Between High And Low Type Wing Stays To Adjust The Downforce Depending On The Road Surface"

RC designs and technologies which were made since the 80s.

Honestly, the ugly plastic shock tower is a turnoff. They should have at least included CF shock tower, aluminum TRF style big bore dampers, gear diff, and blue aluminum turnbuckles to appeal the masses. This is a typical Tamiya marketing strategy and may end up like the over-hyped TC-01 which is very limited in my (and many others) opinion. I'm guessing the price of this will be around $300-350. Fully upgrading it will cost another $250-300 and end up with a $650 kit which will still be inferior next to a HB 418 ($420), AEB74 ($500) or Yoke YZ2 ($389).

Don't get me wrong. I love Tamiya and own a lot of their products (not just RC). But they should get better engineers and designers.

Yes but they they would be making an actual high level racer, which they are not. And if they did then the price would be insane. All of that is just marketing speak, getting annoyed at it is like Getting annoyed at life tbh.

What everyone seems to be missing is that it’s impossible for T to please everyone, so they haven’t bothered.  They took a look what sells for them and importantly will keep them viable as a business and acted on that. CF is fine, but reinforced plastic is just as good tbh.
 

name wise, the special thing about the Avatne was that it was different, it pushed some boundaries into areas that were ultimately not actually that useful on a race buggy. This was a lot easier in the 80s, not so much today when all top ends cars look basically the same, like F1 they have settled on the most efficient formulas and are chasing tiny margins. 
They’ve made an interesting 4wd buggy with shaft drive and ball diffs, what’s more Avante than that?

[Raman36 1656]

10 minutes ago, dannymulder said:

you make me laugh even with carbon or tungsten balls they are not durable have to adjust it every few packs and they get gritty very quick, I put a kyosho gear diff in mine and run about 80 packs true it with a 5700kv motor no way you can do that with a ball diff without any maintenance

that is a winner with those weak plastic diffs they even strip with a torqeu tuned motor.

 

So you’re looking for a diff that doesn’t ever need maintenance? 
 

Even gear diffs require change of fluid after a while.   
 

In any case, my bet is that you can drop the gear diff from a TB04/TB05 or TA07/XV01 in this. 

[dannymulder 766]

27 minutes ago, qatmix said:

I think you have unrealistic expectations of a ball diff. They are made to be maintained. When I raced my 501X with 5.5 I would service them every couple of meetings, if the track was wet then I would service them after the event. The TRF201 was more reliable (7.5t), So I would service them less. I just used the kit parts and when the balls got too gritty I still never went for ceramic's etc. This was just racing, not bashing. 

 

But that is wat I meant people saying ball diff are fine, but not for bashing or low maintenance ,that is  simply not true

And thats why I do not like them, I do not race my cars only bash them, so I do not like to sevice the diffs every few times I drive the car.

And this is not a full blown race car so thats why I do not get it why they put ball diffs in it.

[Raman36 1656]

1 hour ago, Wandy said:

The chassis is a lot more interesting than that fugly body. That's three Avante spin-offs they have now done, and they have all been atrocious in the styling department....the Mk2, the Aero and now this abomination. 

I'm betting they will quietly announce another model of buggy on this chassis, completely differently styled and without any fanfare, and it will be much better looking. That will probably be the one that I buy.

Yikes Andy.. lol… I actually think the body is pretty nice looking, a lot better than the crazy buggy kits that have come out in the last decade.

There is one thing I can figure out though.. every time I watch the video, I have an immense desire to go to IKEA 🤔 

[Nicadraus 6198]

15 hours ago, matisse said:

Yes but they they would be making an actual high level racer, which they are not. And if they did then the price would be insane. All of that is just marketing speak, getting annoyed at it is like Getting annoyed at life tbh.

Wasn't the same with the TC-01? It was supposed to be a high level racing car. But couldn't keep up with standard touring car lap times. 

Yes price is always insane with Tamiya. As annoying it may be, there is something that draws a lot of people (including myself) to build and modify their kits and end up being the most beautiful and eye catching kits around. But this one (in my guess), may end up like the over-hyped TC-01.