TD-4 Super Avante. New Off Road Buggy from Tamiya?

[dannymulder 766]

2 hours ago, Robert5000 said:

And £305 from tjdmodels. I've read october/november as a release date somewhere. 

 

https://www.tjdmodels.com/product/tamiya-super-avante-td4-4wd-110-58696/?fbclid=IwAR1NMucyEL7N7n6N-8Vg3my180JURpgIUoW5REEUgUqNvzY4awBRtYfiOgg

Thats is €350, have to see how much it is on the german vendors, sorry but wish tamiya good luck selling a lot of them for that price, if I wanted one then I still want gear diffs in it if the are available that put  another 50€ to the price, the price is to high for it and then you still have to buy a decent brushless combo and servo.

No way I am going to buy one at that price.

 

[TurnipJF 9181]

28 minutes ago, dannymulder said:

No way I am going to buy one at that price.

Me neither. I daresay I was kinda interested until the pricing was announced, as I was thinking it might be in line with the TA and TB chassis. But since this has more compromises yet costs more money, I don't see it joining my fleet.

[Finnsllc 917]

And todays currency conversion lesson:

$350 pounds = $486.00 USD. Not for me at that price

[Robert5000 928]

I’m going to be hopelessly optimistic and say I hope Tamico will offer it up at less than 300 euros. Ideally it would be priced somewhere between the Terra Scorcher and VQS. 

EDIT to say: I know I’ll be getting one, and I’ll probably want the slipper as well. So for now I’m still quite positive, intrigued and a bit baffled by this release. 

[El Gecko 1343]

I'm definitely not the target market, but the more I see of it, the more I like the look of the body, and think it would look great in a different color scheme. I'm hoping they'll sell a clear shell separately--wonder if it will fit any other existing chassis? (DT/DF03, TT02B, etc.)

I'll reserve judgment on the chassis itself until I see an upright shock mod that makes it easier to remove the battery. As @toyolien said in the other thread, this configuration is simply bonkers, even for Tamiya.

[Cynan 520]

Out of interest I checked the price of models back in 1998 using the vintage media resources on this site, and it listed a HS2 at £108, a Bigwig at £149 and an Avante at £195.

Google days inflation to present day is 80.51%.
So in today’s money those kits would cost £195, £269 and £352 respectively.

Based on that, £305 isn’t that high really for a new, up to date kit.

[dannymulder 766]

5 minutes ago, Cynan said:

Out of interest I checked the price of models back in 1998 using the vintage media resources on this site, and it listed a HS2 at £108, a Bigwig at £149 and an Avante at £195.

Google days inflation to present day is 80.51%.
So in today’s money those kits would cost £195, £269 and £352 respectively.

Based on that, £305 isn’t that high really for a new, up to date kit.

But if you compare it to other brands what you can get for you money it is expensive, I am not going to pay premium prices because it has the 2 star tamiya brand on it.

[rwordenjr 1890]

1 hour ago, Cynan said:

Out of interest I checked the price of models back in 1998 using the vintage media resources on this site, and it listed a HS2 at £108, a Bigwig at £149 and an Avante at £195.

Google days inflation to present day is 80.51%.
So in today’s money those kits would cost £195, £269 and £352 respectively.

Based on that, £305 isn’t that high really for a new, up to date kit.

It’s overpriced. It’s a joke compared to other kits in the price range. However, it’s not meant to compete with those other kits (at least I hope not because once again, it’s child’s play compared to other options in the price range). Tamiya  is charging for the name and nostalgia more than performance/newest technology but that’s their niche in the hobby so this isn’t a surprise.

[matisse 1581]

30 minutes ago, rwordenjr said:

It’s overpriced. It’s a joke compared to other kits in the price range. However, it’s not meant to compete with those other kits (at least I hope not because once again, it’s child’s play compared to other options in the price range). Tamiya  is charging for the name and nostalgia more than performance/newest technology but that’s their niche in the hobby so this isn’t a surprise.

Fascinating how everyone is down on how much things cost without knowledge of the financial situations and p&l  of each company.

Not to mention the FX rates for currency, and the skyrocketing costs of container shipping at the moment, especially from Asia.

It costs what it costs, “value” is very much a personal construct, my idea value is not the same of yours. 
 

personally I’m happy to pay for the work that has gone into designing and producing what will be an interesting and unique model.

[Raman36 1654]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:56 AM, dannymulder said:

You only forget 1 thing most of the people that want to buy it do not race there cars, and only run them for fun, always run 2 packs true my cars when I take them out.

And this is not an high spec race car.

My main point was even a highly touted chassis such as F1 requires a bit of work for battery removal. 

[Morinstal 170]

$400++? Ok ill pass. I can get 2 reres buggy with that or 3 wltoys new 1/10 buggy.

[Raman36 1654]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:41 AM, Wooders28 said:

You put the whole car in a charge bag to charge it? (Even though charging a lipo in a car, is still classed as a big no no) 

You get thrown out of clubs for not charging in a charge bag (uk brca rules anyway)

 

"Charging batteries in LiPo sacks is strongly recommended, at any BRCA event or affiliated clubs it is MANDATORY to use a lipo sack."

 

I can’t speak for UK.. but even at big races such as IIC we had in Las Vegas, not a single person removed their LiPo from an F1 and put it in charge bag.  The rules did stipulate however charging at 16 amps max. 
 

Honestly, in the last 7 years that I’ve been attending our local track, not 1 single LiPo has gone  thermal. There are plenty of noobs at track as well.  
 

Plenty of ESC have gone up in smoke due to reverse polarity, and a few motors have been toasted.  RC Airplanes, Drones all use LiPos and hobbyist frequently crash them in fields and bushes and even though they are soft pack LiPos.. you're not seeing them catch fire.  Teslas on the other hand seem to go poof a few times a years 😂

Lastly, I will add that I’m on this forum as frequently as I am on RCtech. TC has a significant population of users that fear Lipos.  With a good charger and common sense, you will not have any problems with LiPos.  

[Juggular 4961]

hmmm... 

I applaud that Tamiya tried inboard suspension.  It's like Frog's rear only it's for the front.  And it looks like a capable buggy.  

But as @Blista pointed out already, the battery access is the most complicated one I've seen so far.  I admit, bottom access isn't the cleanest.  But why make it this complicated?  It's like a jet ejection seat requiring a hacksaw.  Those screws you have to undo every time are load-bearing parts also.  

If somebody told me, "hey, this buggy is cool, but you have to undo the shell, unscrew 2 bolts and 2 pins to take off the gearbox every time you change the battery."  I'd have said, "no way. who'd build it like that?"  Apparently Tamaya did.  Inboard shocks look cool, but seriously?   If you lay shocks on top, that's a very good reason to have a battery door at the bottom.  It's not a boat. Why so afraid of the bottom door?  

Maybe have the battery door swing open to the side? 

Or put a hinge on the ESC tray and open that up instead?  

Or move the shocks to the sidewalls of the tub chassis (like the Frog)?  

This looks like 2 step forward and 1 step backward.  

I think I'll wait for Super Avante 2...(which might be like Hotshot 1 going to Hotshot 2. Sometimes reinventing the shocks wasn't necessary. So you go back to the conventional 4 shocks. Having said that, though, I did enjoy the 80's immensely when Tamiya was trying out this and that. Many good things come out of that.  I'm not critical of the inboard, I'm just not sure about the battery access.  I'll refrain from jumping in--which I hardly ever do.  I'll let other gents experience the shortcomings of this, and then decide whether to get it or not based on their opinions.)  

 

[Blista 1519]

35 minutes ago, Juggular said:

But why make it this complicated?

This is the question I keep coming back to.  It seems like everything could've worked out much easier if they'd compromised on one factor: mid-motor, longitudinal battery placement, slim tub chassis, or inboard dampers.  I think they drew the car then said to the production team to make it happen however they can.

In my opinion, if they'd ditched the 4WD system to allow for more direct steering, cut back on some of the nice-to-haves like hex fasteners, called it a Super Frog/Super Duper Hornet/whatever, it'd be a lot cheaper and still a really nice buggy with an iconic name.

[BuggyGuy 1106]

Looks like battery doors to me - as spotted by a few others:

 

[moffman 5746]

Well the price is what it is £295-350? The topforce evo £399, the egress £600, avante £500 (all "ish by the way) all these buggies have significantly increased in price over the lat 18 months and on a completely different market all building materials have gone up 25-40% in the last 18 months! I bought a new 1/1 car in lockdown because my old one finally committed car suicide (timing belt snapped) and with 200,000 miles on the clock it wasn't financially viable to repair but the car I bought same spec colour year etc is now £2000 more in the same garage I bought my one from! I think the world markets have all gone up and Brexit has got to have some effect on the UK markets because I'm constantly hearing about how expensive things are to import these days? So I think this is the new normal (sorry for using that fraise) 

[Wooders28 4718]

10 hours ago, Raman36 said:

I can’t speak for UK.. but even at big races such as IIC we had in Las Vegas, not a single person removed their LiPo from an F1 and put it in charge bag.  The rules did stipulate however charging at 16 amps max. 

You would first be asked nicely, to remove it and charge it in a charge bag.

Then less nicely

Then thrown out of the club.

Racing outdoors isn't too bad, (same rules apply though) but indoors, I'm not sure if it's part of the insurance policy requirements.

I'm not sure of any max Amp rules (?), but we always charge at 1C, and to 4.2v per cell,  it's only if I'm running out of time for my next race, I'll up the juice a bit....(I know modern liHv cells say upto 5C).

10 hours ago, Raman36 said:

TC has a significant population of users that fear Lipos.  

Yep, but it's a bit like plane crashes, when one does go on fire, it's headline news on all the social media outlets.

From my knowledge, most of the ones have been when being charged at daft C ratings or parallel charging. 

I'm moving to liHv now.

Takes a while for some Tamiya followers to except change, 10yrs from now, they'll be a rush on the TD4's ,as they become excepted, tbh ,I'm still trying to get used to the new layout at the supermarket, which they moved about last year....🤬🤣

[jonboy1 2943]

9 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

tbh ,I'm still trying to get used to the new layout at the supermarket, which they moved about last year....🤬🤣

Why do they do that??!! I swear they do it just so they can laugh at us wandering around muttering to ourselves (more than usual) looking (more) lost (than usual)

So, what is this LiPo thing I keep reading about? 

[Wheel_Nut 322]

To me the price isn't the biggest issue.   I got the impression this design was rushed onto the market without much critical evaluation.   I will wait until they release version 2 with a revised chassis layout.

[matisse 1581]

11 minutes ago, Wheel_Nut said:

To me the price isn't the biggest issue.   I got the impression this designed was rushed onto the market without much critical evaluation.   I will wait until they release version 2 with a revised chassis layout.

I doubt it, they don't seem like a company to rush things. Plus the sheer cost of new tooling for a mass production run means that this will have gone through many stages of R&D to get to the point of release.

 

[toyolien 4656]

2 hours ago, BuggyGuy said:

Looks like battery doors to me - as spotted by a few others:

 

If that is a battery door then why wouldn't they just have shown it in the love video. How he showed to battery comes is likely to put more people off pre ordering one. Like me for example. I'm waiting for confirmation on how the battery does come out and whether the body is clear or not before pre ordering. 

[Howards 456]

I'm going to buy one because it's interesting and £300 or so is fairly reasonable for a completely new model* with hex screws and composite plastics most of which will come from completely new and spendy moulds. Price is roughly in-line with the DB01 and DB02 and both of those re-used components from the TRF buggies going back as far as the TRF201. 

* doesn't look like there's much re-use of parts from older chassis designs, a factor that significantly reduces production costs.

[rich_f 233]

Can someone please explain why the presence of hex socket-headed screws is such a desirable aspect? I've seen it mentioned multiple times now about this car. 

I get that hex-socket screws are generally less likely to cam out and strip the heads, but at the torque necessary to drive them into plastic, surely this advantage is negated? I mean, I've never stripped the head of a JIS headed screw in an rc car as the torque required to screw it into plastic isn't enough to cause cam-out. 

So is it just the way they look? (they do look better in my opinion)

[Howards 456]

Just now, rich_f said:

Can someone please explain why the presence of hex socket-headed screws is such a desirable aspect? I've seen it mentioned multiple times now about this car. 

I get that hex-socket screws are generally less likely to cam out and strip the heads, but at the torque necessary to drive them into plastic, surely this advantage is negated? I mean, I've never stripped the head of a JIS headed screw in an rc car as the torque required to screw it into plastic isn't enough to cause cam-out. 

So is it just the way they look? (they do look better in my opinion)

I see you've never tried to screw a JIS in to a freshly moulded composite reinforced plastic

[Howards 456]

That said the pricing does suggest they aren't sure at all how many of these they are going to sell. I think they are pricing in a lot of risk.