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The Tamiya Super Avante #58696 Information and Pictures

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Robinson Racing still calls M0.6 "metric 48", which drives me nuts. They only make them to 24t, which also drives me nuts. It's a misnomer that goes back to the early days of RC, when American cars still used standard hardware. 

I think that the TD4 might be intended for light club racing/higher performance backyard action. I'll probably club race mine a couple of times once I've gotten it properly sorted.

Regarding the XV-01 based transmissions, the spacer on the idler shaft still appears to be plastic, and needs to be replaced with aluminum or steel for high performance use. Square makes spacers in the correct size; I don't have a part number. It'd be super rad if Tamiya makes a belt version of the TD4, sorta like a DB-01 and 02.

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47 minutes ago, Raman36 said:

If anything, Mod 0.4 should have been called Metric 64p because they are extremely close.

Sorry but no… close is not exact. Whilst you could use it in a pinch it shouldn’t be labeled a metric size unless it is 100% and whilst it may be annoying to some, personally I feel we should actively clamp down on the misuse.

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I'm thinking club racing. I mean, they made it out of a high performance plastic so it's sturdy. Then Tamiya is just doing the standard money making process by adding upgrades separately...alloy shocks, slipper clutch, etc. I'm sure they will release a version with everything which will be pricey but isn't part of the fun building it the way you like?

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1 hour ago, Cynan said:

Sorry but no… close is not exact. Whilst you could use it in a pinch it shouldn’t be labeled a metric size unless it is 100% and whilst it may be annoying to some, personally I feel we should actively clamp down on the misuse.

In this case, difference in module is 0.003mm - I think that's within manufacturing tolerances, so they can be considered identical - but in that case, there's no reason to call it "metric" 64p, it's just 64p.

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10 hours ago, matisse said:

If filling small spaces with very viscous fluid is your thing then it would appear so

Ive never had a gear that used oil. You just use oil instead of grease ? Definitely interested in switching to gear if not too difficult. I’m not very good at adjusting 1 ball diff let alone 2 

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8 minutes ago, rwordenjr said:

Ive never had a gear that used oil. You just use oil instead of grease ? Definitely interested in switching to gear if not too difficult. I’m not very good at adjusting 1 ball diff let alone 2 

Modern racing gear diffs are different to the more traditional Tamiya gear diffs. They are completely sealed and you tune them by changing the weight of the silicone oil in the diff case.

Most modern TRF cars have oil filled gear diffs, as does the M07/08, XV01, TA06, TA07, TA08, TB05 Etc. Tamiya also made one for the TT02 (Type S?) as an upgrade the the stock gear diffs. I think the first non TRF on road car to have one was the TA05 (unless a TB got one first?) not many of the more hobby grade cars have them.

They don't offer slip like ball diffs can, but require less maintenance.

Other manufacturers have gone super fancy with gear diffs, like the new Xray Active gear diff: https://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/news/newsdesc.php?news_id=3086&kategoria=3086&catName=&newsTitle=New XB4 Active Differential - Front/Rear – Set&Xnet_Session=0fa52b4a493668b732381cf63494cc5f

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7 hours ago, matisse said:

Kinda like the DB01/DN01 then I guess

Not really, as they were cheaper versions of TRF cars, like the TA/TB are cheaper versions of TRF cars and they have their place as club racers or carpark/backyard racers. This and the TC01 don't have any equivalents and won't compete againts conventional cars, even with hopups. The TC01 is heavy and has other issues like being difficult to work on, enclosed motor which is harder to cool, so will never compete with a TA07 on track, but a TA07 in the right hands could compete with an Xray T4. Same with DN01 and DB01, both could compete in the right hands,  and wouldn't handicap racers who wanted a cheap entry point. To me the TD4 looks like it will be starting a few seconds behind the pack so its not a good starting point for anyone. It has weird suspension, transmissions both ends (not just a diff/belt or diff/pinion but counter gears etc), motor will get hot in stock classes because its not it the open, does the offcentre shaft affect anything, wjat gearing can be achieved?

So this to me looks like a great backyard racer but while it would probably be ok at a track in an allcomers type race for a few meets, it won't stand a chance in stock class racing. Maybe mod where drivetrain loss and cooling aren't so much of a problem?

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8 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Not really, as they were cheaper versions of TRF cars, like the TA/TB are cheaper versions of TRF cars and they have their place as club racers or carpark/backyard racers. This and the TC01 don't have any equivalents and won't compete againts conventional cars, even with hopups. The TC01 is heavy and has other issues like being difficult to work on, enclosed motor which is harder to cool, so will never compete with a TA07 on track, but a TA07 in the right hands could compete with an Xray T4. Same with DN01 and DB01, both could compete in the right hands,  and wouldn't handicap racers who wanted a cheap entry point. To me the TD4 looks like it will be starting a few seconds behind the pack so its not a good starting point for anyone. It has weird suspension, transmissions both ends (not just a diff/belt or diff/pinion but counter gears etc), motor will get hot in stock classes because its not it the open, does the offcentre shaft affect anything, wjat gearing can be achieved?

So this to me looks like a great backyard racer but while it would probably be ok at a track in an allcomers type race for a few meets, it won't stand a chance in stock class racing. Maybe mod where drivetrain loss and cooling aren't so much of a problem?

You may well be right, I guess we will need to build and race a few to be sure, but a few points;

- Off center shaft shouldn't be too big a deal as it's going to be a low rotating mass

- Spot on that the drive train won't be as efficient due to its complexity, so this car won't be as fast if racing in stock classes.

- Suspension travel looks sufficient from the promotional vids and other very successful off road cars have used a similar design up front (E.g T-Tech Predator), so that shouldn't be too big an issue as long as the pivots are tough enough.

- Motor cooling might be ok as there's provision for a fan moulded into the deck from the look of the build videos that have popped up so far...

 

I really want this to be a good car... can anyone tell :D

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2 minutes ago, BuggyGuy said:

You may well be right, I guess we will need to build and race a few to be sure, but a few points;

- Off center shaft shouldn't be too big a deal as it's going to be a low rotating mass

- Spot on that the drive train won't be as efficient due to its complexity, so this car won't be as fast if racing in stock classes.

- Suspension travel looks sufficient from the promotional vids and other very successful off road cars have used a similar design up front (E.g T-Tech Predator), so that shouldn't be too big an issue as long as the pivots are tough enough.

- Motor cooling might be ok as there's provision for a fan moulded into the deck from the look of the build videos that have popped up so far...

 

I really want this to be a good car... can anyone tell :D

When I first saw it I wasn't fussed but now want it to be great. I don't need one and can't justify it like I could a DB01 or DN01 replacement that could compete at a club, but one may find its way under the xmas tree...

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6 hours ago, Cynan said:

Sorry but no… close is not exact. Whilst you could use it in a pinch it shouldn’t be labeled a metric size unless it is 100% and whilst it may be annoying to some, personally I feel we should actively clamp down on the misuse.

Do you have any experience with using a 64p gear and a mod 0.4? It certainly doesn’t sound like it. 
 

I run 64p gears in 4 cars which I race every weekend and have used Mod 0.4 pinions without stripping gears or loud / excessive noise due to improper mesh.
 

I am also unclear of your comment about actively clamping down on the misuse? Are you part of a RC / gearing governing body that we are not aware of?

 

 

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TD4 was created for club / spec racing. It’s a middle level platform that Tamiya will continue to expand on. There are items in the parts tree that reference future planning for the chassis. 

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3 hours ago, Raman36 said:

TD4 was created for club / spec racing. It’s a middle level platform that Tamiya will continue to expand on. There are items in the parts tree that reference future planning for the chassis. 

I'm predicting a hopped up buggy version, maybe a stadium truck, hopefully a rally car of some sort, and maybe a 2WD buggy. There's some TRF 201 looking parts back there. 

Can't wait to get mine home. 

 

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3 hours ago, Big Jon said:

I'm predicting a hopped up buggy version, maybe a stadium truck, hopefully a rally car of some sort, and maybe a 2WD buggy. There's some TRF 201 looking parts back there. 

Can't wait to get mine home. 

 

I agree they will do a lot with it. My concern with an R, RR or MS version is the price will just be too high. Those versions work for the TA and TB cars as they are still less than race kits, but offroad racers are cheaper than touring cars so there isn't much room to add better bits and keep the price reasonable. Of course I'm assuming that people are looking at this as a clubracer and alternative to an Ae B74 or Xray XB4 etc

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7 hours ago, Raman36 said:

I am also unclear of your comment about actively clamping down on the misuse?

I meant we should stop using the word metric and imperial interchangeably.

Saying you can use a Mod 0.4 with a 64p gear is perfectly fine in my opinion.

What isn’t is saying metric 48dp, as it’s not metric.

Just as we shouldn’t use mb when talking about a file size or broadband speed. MB and Mb denote different things. As do metric and imperial measurements. It just leads to confusion.

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Couple of shots from the Tamiya Live from last night,

show a good amount of hop-ups and how well it looks with the Big Bores on (if only they weren’t so expensive…)

also, some kind of variable length servo saver that’s super intriguing 

985F84A2-6E5B-4D01-881B-BE2B9FE29C77.md.

9FABC63C-5E07-4376-AF10-A8CFC9BD5F25.md.

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54893 is the adjustable servo saver, I used it on my unimog cc-02 build

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48 minutes ago, taffer said:

54893 is the adjustable servo saver, I used it on my unimog cc-02 build

What does that really do ? What does being able to adjust actually change ?

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Just now, rwordenjr said:

What does that really do ? What does being able to adjust actually change ?

There have been multiple times that I’ve wished for a different length servo saver, mostly as what I’ve used has left an extreme angle on the linkage.

Ive been thinking this am about whether the ability to vary the angle would change the steering feel on that bell crank system.

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Adjusting servo saver length definitely changes steering feel. On my tt01 racecar the steering feel was super twitchy with the stock setup and i had the dual rate turned down to something silly like 34% to work kn the track, which also has the effect of reducing how powerful the expo adjustment is. When i switched to a kimbrough servo saver i trimmed it so i could use the hole closest to the pivot and it really helped. The dual rate was back to around 70% for the throw i wanted which also made the expo tuning more effective so i got way better steering feel.

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12 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Adjusting servo saver length definitely changes steering feel. On my tt01 racecar the steering feel was super twitchy with the stock setup and i had the dual rate turned down to something silly like 34% to work kn the track, which also has the effect of reducing how powerful the expo adjustment is. When i switched to a kimbrough servo saver i trimmed it so i could use the hole closest to the pivot and it really helped. The dual rate was back to around 70% for the throw i wanted which also made the expo tuning more effective so i got way better steering feel.

Figured. I wonder if we’ll see Tamiya/aftermarket bell Cranks with different lengths/geometry to achieve the same affect.

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12 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

Adjusting servo saver length definitely changes steering feel. On my tt01 racecar the steering feel was super twitchy with the stock setup and i had the dual rate turned down to something silly like 34% to work kn the track, which also has the effect of reducing how powerful the expo adjustment is. When i switched to a kimbrough servo saver i trimmed it so i could use the hole closest to the pivot and it really helped. The dual rate was back to around 70% for the throw i wanted which also made the expo tuning more effective so i got way better steering feel.

Figured. I wonder if we’ll see Tamiya/aftermarket bell Cranks with different lengths/geometry to achieve the same affect.

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Front end construction on the td4 looks pretty tough to me. Wonder if they will do option parts for adjusting the kick-up and caster angle. 

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3 hours ago, Killajb said:

Amazon | SAVOX 21CSC1509001 SC-1251MG ロープロファイル ハイスピード メタルギヤ デジタルサーボ |  ラジコン・ドローン 通販Tamiya 54611 TBLM-02S Brushless Motor 02 (Sensored) 10.5T  (TT01/TT02/XV-01), NIB | eBay823-3L.jpg

Oh Tamiya..  look at what you made me do..

What are you doing for rear dampers??

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