racing info on ta04r?

[oldfordguy]

Im considering buying a ta04 r for the next racing season. Can anybody give pros, cons, and comments about this platform? It will be used as a serious club level race car. How does it compare to tb evo, evoII as far as acceleration, handling, efficiency?

[WillyChang]

quote:

Originally posted by oldfordguy

Im considering buying a ta04 r for the next racing season. Can anybody give pros, cons, and comments about this platform? It will be used as a serious club level race car.

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An excellent choice, unless you prefer a FRP/graphite plate chassis in which case you might also want to consider the 04PRO. Just weigh up the cost of the options etc etc, maybe the 04R is the cheaper route.

Or maybe go the full hog and try a 414M2.

quote:

How does it compare to tb evo, evoII as far as acceleration, handling, efficiency?

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I'm told they handle differently, so its a matter of personal preference. My 04s (tub & PRO) handle very neutrally and are quite sensitive to adjustments.

EvoIII now announced also.

[CarterTG]

Generally speaking, the pecking order in terms of included upgrades for the "4" series is:

• TRF414MII
  
• TA04R
  
• TA04 Pro
  
• TA04S
  

The world champ TRF414MII is pretty much armed to the teeth out of the box, thus no real upgrades available/necessary for it. But this race-bred configuration may cost you in terms of toughness. The biggest nit reported from a friend who has one is that the bottom pan screws tend to strip easily somehow.

The TA04R features many hop-ups including universal shafts, one-way front(?), and carbon tub chassis.

The TA04 Pro is configured just a notch below that but is still nicely outfitted with ball bearings everywhere and a (IMO) sexy carbon fiber plate chassis. This kit uses .04 pitched gears like the TRF414MII.

The TA04S seems more entry-level as it's missing ball bearings in a few spots.

Belt drive racers are highly efficient in delivering power from motor to wheels. My old RC Heli used a belt system for the tail rotor because it was overall lighter than a shaft system. They DO require more caution where they're run since an errant pebble might cause trouble, however most onroad asphalt and carpet tracks should be free of this hazard.

I've run my TA04 Pro in the streets and haven't seen any signs of debris in the drivetrain. It's an absolute hoot to drive even when it was bone-stock out of the box. Very predictable handling, low ground-hugging COG, and brakes in a straight line... almost everything my RWD Tamiya isn't! [] Suspension adjustment and gearing choices remain overwhelming for a beginner like myself. I'm currently using a conservative 19turn Quad and the car accelerates and runs just slightly beyond my abilities.

The only upgrades I made sure to get for the Pro were

• 53456 Turnbuckle Upper Arms for quick front & rear camber adjustments
  
• 53457 Turnbuckle Tie Rods for quick toe-in adjustments
  
• 53458 Racing Hub Carriers to upgrade from 8° to 5° caster for twitchier steering
  
• 53426 Racing Body Posts to move the front posts to the bumper like the TRF414
  

The Racing Body Posts were added immediately after initial assembly so that all future shells would be trimmed appropriately for it.

I've considered adding a race-level shaft drive Tamiya (TB/EVO) to the stable, but remain a bit hesitant not only because of the slight efficiency and torque steer issues, but moreso because it's chassis layout (like the AE TC3) has that battery pack sitting on one side. On principle, I like my chassis to at least LOOK like they're well balanced.[]

The TRF414 and "04" cars share some components (stock & upgrades), but not everything. I've briefly compared mine against that friend's 414 and found that there's a very slight difference in wheelbase and more surprisingly, the 414 felt just a tad heavier to the both of us ...perhaps due to the 414's higher aluminum count.

The upcoming EVO III is supposed to share some common suspension parts with the "04" platform.

[WillyChang]

quote:

Originally posted by CarterTG

The

TA04 Pro

is configured just a notch below that but is still nicely outfitted with ball bearings everywhere and a (IMO) sexy carbon fiber plate chassis. This kit uses .04 pitched gears like the TRF414MII.

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Not quite, the PRO's chassis is only FRP not 'real' carbon. Don't tell your friends and none will be wiser... []

You can buy option carbon chassis, also chassis for saddle pack but imho they just work 95% same anyway, so stick with the FRP - its cheaper to replace.

TA04 is the first Tamiya TC to use a 'universal' type gear carrier. If you don't want to buy a whole set of .4 metric pitch gears you can easily change the spur to any other brand (HPI, Associated etc) of multifit 32/48/64-pitch spurs to suit your pinions.

quote:

Originally posted by CarterTG

The only upgrades I made sure to get for the

Pro

were

• 53456 Turnbuckle Upper Arms
  for quick front & rear camber adjustments

• 53457 Turnbuckle Tie Rods
  for quick toe-in adjustments

• 53458 Racing Hub Carriers
  to upgrade from 8° to 5° caster for twitchier steering

• 53426 Racing Body Posts
  to move the front posts to the bumper like the TRF414

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Hokey, here's mine:-

Turnbuckles are useful if you're doing a lot of adjusting, but once you've got the car sorted they're not much use. I'd go for the stainless steel hingepins instead - they're a bit tougher against bending than standard ones I suspect.

Caster changes is a personal choice... ditto toe-in rear blocks which some ppl like. I might try a pair myself for more straights stability.

Tamiya's plastic shocks work pretty well when built correctly, you really don't need the metal shocks (just eye candy).

Belts don't give much trouble even on dirtier areas; lower friction belts are available but I don't know how much difference they really make. (I've got wierd problem of high wear in my top pulley though, still very curious about that.)

Carbon shock towers are handy to have over the plastic ones as these have more holes = more tuning options.

Carbon suspension arms... well, they're a little stiffer but they can still be brittle & break on hard impacts.

Finned motor mount... depends on your motor's heat generation. (The local boys run at under 5:1 on their rebuildable stocks so they reach 60-70 degC easy, its recommended if so.)

Actually the ONLY option I think is mandatory is the "Racing Front Arms" kit... this gives the 3rd top lateral link ala 414 and really stiffens up the front. Steering gets a lot more precise and front end grip improves remarkably. (Since I put it on the tail's now loose.)

What I like best about the PRO is that it gives a full set of blue-sealed bearings. What does the R & S give, metal shielded only?

[oldfordguy]

Thanks for all the input. Last season I raced both a tb01 and a tb evo in stock class, and was extremely successful. Well, now the TBs are sold, and Im looking to get new racing cars. Im going to go ahead with an 04r, and most likely a tbevoIII when its available. I like the o4 r for its full race spec, and tub chassis design. I just ended up thrashing the bottems of my plate chassis cars racing on a less than perfect parking lot circuit. Im still convinced that shaft drive is more efficient, especially for acceleration, but I havent tried a new belt car for a couple years. I also just like the overall look of the o4r all naked and showing off those front upper stiffening rods... Next season I may run both stock and mod, so 2 cars will be nice to have.

[RETRO R/C]

I actually just made my comeback to racing - my weapon of choice was the TA04R.

The resoning was simple - basically a TRF - without the one ways and carbon chassis and alloy.

VERY hopped up out of the box - and a great handler. The chassis is carbon impregnated - a bit stiffer than the standard tub chassis.

The R is by far the most cost effective choice in the stable - unless you can afford the TRF - I would grab the "R" - you are over half way there towards the TRF. (4 universal drive shafts, ball diffs front and rear, carbon top plate, alloy threaded shocks - the list is long!!)

I set a new lap record - and won FTD of the night nigh in my comeback after 2 years of not racing - not bad - maybe this is why I am so chuffed with my choice of the TA04R.

Cheers

Darryn

[stulec52]

I race an 04 pro, and I love it, tried the r and didn't like it as much... but then mine has every hop up including the carbon chassis set.

A couple of points back to Willy.....

quote:Actually the ONLY option I think is mandatory is the "Racing Front Arms" kit... this gives the 3rd top lateral link ala 414 and really stiffens up the front. Steering gets a lot more precise and front end grip improves remarkably. (Since I put it on the tail's now loose.)

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Actually all the Tamiya Eurocup racers I spoke to about this remove the extra top link because they became too twitcy

quote:Caster changes is a personal choice... ditto toe-in rear blocks which some ppl like. I might try a pair myself for more straights stability.

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You really need the option to change castor and toe in to dial the car for different tracks, esp. rear toe in!

quote:You can buy option carbon chassis, also chassis for saddle pack but imho they just work 95% same anyway, so stick with the FRP - its cheaper to replace.

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I run the saddle carbon chassis, WORLD of difference between it and frp stick chassis.

quote:Turnbuckles are useful if you're doing a lot of adjusting, but once you've got the car sorted they're not much use.

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Not much use??? really? I got to say they are another integral part of dialing your car into a specific track.

And well in my opinion the 04 PRO is a great car, needs a couple of the hop ups to get the most out of it, but after that you have a winner, also don't be afraid to try the front and centre one way diffs, again on the right type of track (fast and flowing) they are superb!

I have tried a Factory Team TC3, and a XXXS this year, but still prefer my trusty 04 PRO !!

[oldfordguy]

I am eager to try a car with a 1 way center pully rather than a 1 way front diff. I have had 3 cars with 1 way front diffs, and they were all much to prone to oversteer off throttle. I think a 1 way center pully, keeping the front diff action will be the best compramize. All the time tuning and racing my evo and 01 I wished I could get a compramize between the loosygoosy handling of the 1 way diff, and the pushyness of the dual diff set up. I ended up running dual diffs for the end of the season. I rather like cornering off throttle very sharply, but without spinning out. The dual diff set up likes to be powered through the apex, and the front 1 way set up likes to be drifted. Only 1 car could reliably catch my TBs and take the inside line. It was an old losi street weapon with adjustable 1 way bearing for the front drive. The tc3s and xxxss were in the same boat as me, either too twitchy with a front 1 way diff, or too pushy with dual diffs. Thankfully the Tbs are more efficient than either USA car!

[WillyChang]

Thanks Stu.

Sounds like the euro boys found out the same thing re steering improvement with the extra link. Yeah, the 04 is an amazing steerer; am hoping the toe-in rear might help things a bit. Might even go soften the shock spring or oil in the back too when I get back to the track again.

Here t'is prior to bolting on the steering set:-

[stulec52]

to Old Ford Guy.. I ended up only running the front one way on the largest track I raced at, but I did run the centre one way on several tracks, I also modifed it so that you could leave it in place full time, but I drilled and tapped a grub screw into so I could engage or disengage it quickly and easily, very handy !!!!!

I think the main diff with the chassis on the PRO is that with the saddle chassis the batterys sit lower due to the cutouts in it.

And Willy, rear toe is the way to go

[oldfordguy]

Good idea about using a screw to lock in the center hub on the 1 way pully. I wonder if an adjustable clicker 1 way unit could be adapted, perhaps from the Schumacker sedan? Also, what rear hubs does the r model come with, 0 deg toe in, 2??

[WillyChang]

TA04R Option Parts Included

Carbon Reinforced Resin Lower Deck

TRF Dampers

Aluminum Rear Bulkhead Beam

Aluminum Servo Stay

Universal Shaft

Urethane Bumper

5mm Aluminum Ball Connector (10 pcs.)

Medium-Narrow Reinforced Tires Type A

Medium-Narrow Soft Inner Foam (1 Pair)

TA04 Ball Differential Unit

TA04 Aluminum Motor Heat Sink

On-Road Tuned Hard Spring Set

TA04 Color Stabilizer Set (Front)

TA04 Color Stabilizer Set (Rear)

4mm Hard Lock-Nut & Spacer Set

TA04 Aluminum Hub Set For Spur Gear

TA04 Racing Hub Carrier Set

TA04 Toe-In Rear Uprights

TA04 Low Friction Belt (Front)

TA04 Low Friction Belt (Rear)

TA04 Carbon Upper Deck

Full Bearing Set

FROM:- http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/58282ta04r/ta04r.htm