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M-Chassis Tire mystery

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For years I wondered why there are so many different tires for M-chassis.  I mean they all have the same tread pattern.  

M2DjUrS.jpg

So I finally asked Tamiya USA and below is what they sent me (in blue). 

 

50683 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-m-chassis-60d-radial-tires/

This is the tire that comes in most of the M chassis Kits  

(I wish I knew about the compound. If I buy M-Grip would it be softer than this or harder?  If you bash parking lots regardless of weather, this could be considered "all season?") 

 

53254 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-60d-super-grip-radial-tires/

This has the same tread pattern as 50683 but is a softer compound (S Grip) more suitable for racing. S Grip means Super Grip

(This grips very well on my wood/vinyl floor. My M06 came with S-Grip for the rear only. Without S-Grip, the rear would spin out.  But it looks like it would wear out quickly. In fact, I'm afraid to use it on a hot summer afternoon.) 

 

54999 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-60d-super-radial-tires/

This is a hard tire designed for warm weather and also has the same tread. This is a newer item. We haven’t tried them yet.

(Suitable for 78 degrees F or hotter. That's 25C.  So, I'm not to waste S-grip on a hot pavement...)

 

50684 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-60d-m-grip-radial-tires/

M Grip means Medium Grip. This is harder than the S Grip and designed to grip less.

(Would this be better than "all season" if I were to drive only during spring/summer/fall?) 

 

54995 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-60d-super-radial-tires-2/

This is a softer version of 54999 designed for cooler weather or carpet. We also have yet to try them

 

(This is another "soft." Would this be softer than Super Grip, or less?  But the webpage says it's for cooler weather between 8-25C, or 46-77F.)  

 

Now, there is more information on these 5 different tires.  

It's a bit confusing because there are two different standards.  One is softness standard, and the other is temperature standard.  For example, I don't know how the softness of S-grip and softness of cold weather would compare.  Or how the car would run on a hot day if I swapped tires between M-grip and Hard.  And how does the standard all season would compare to any of them?  

But at least it's a good starting point. 

P.S. Tires don't come with sponges.  I left sponges out of front tires of M06 because the front has almost no weight on it.  On M05, I left sponges out on rear tires for the same reason.   

 

53255 https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/tiresspareoption/rc-60d-hard-inner-sponge/

This is the inner sponge we recommend for these tires.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Juggular said:

I wish I knew about the compound. If I buy M-Grip would it be softer than this or harder?  If you bash parking lots regardless of weather, this could be considered "all season?"

The standard kit tyres are harder than M-Grip. If you're a car park basher then yes these can be considered all season. 

I always used to race with these on the front of my M03 on carpet with S-grips on the rear. 

Outdoor on dusty tarmac I would use S-grips on the front and Type-A slicks on the rear. 

I've no experience with the super radials. 

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@Juggular Great summary.  

 

I mainly only run PitShimizu's for their lower profile tires.  I don't race so do not need to be TCS compliant.

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4 minutes ago, Willy iine said:

I mainly only run PitShimizu's

For a moment, I thought you said, you run pet shihtzu.  (I love dogs)

0lsHb7q.jpg\

 

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Thanks for making your enquiries @Juggular.

Am I right in thinking that some kits - like the M04 Giulia - come with mixed compounds?

If so, how do you tell them apart? I guess the model number on the sidewall?

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13 minutes ago, Badcrumble said:

Am I right in thinking that some kits - like the M04 Giulia - come with mixed compounds?

If so, how do you tell them apart? I guess the model number on the sidewall?

My M04 mazda mx-5 came with standard kit tyres on the front but s-grips on the rear. S-grips and M-grips have S-Grip and M-Grip on their sidewalls, respectively. Standard kit tyres just have the number and Tamiya on the sidewalls

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I have all the treaded m-chassis tyres made by Tamiya (only 2 of the slicks).

The new ones (soft and standard compound) feel identical to the S-grip and standard grip, albeit with a shiny sidewall and no other markings to differentiate it from the first 3 60d compounds. 

Obviously real world track time might show different results.

Will take a pic when home.

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That’s a great response from Tamiya. I’ll definitely copy - paste - save that in my M notes.  Do any of y’all know what Tamiya means by “Radial Tires”?

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Ok everything is very subjective.

I cannot remember when I bought my last set of S-grips and m-grips. They are new, but been out of the packet for who knows how long, and my s-grip, m-grip and 54999 'soft' and 54995 super (Hard?) tyres all have different foams, as it was more a case of (with the whole Covid thing of the past 16 months) what I could get my hands on.

The only true indication would be to mount all tyres on the same rims with the same foams and do back to back testing on the same car/track, changing nothing but the wheels with the appropriate tyres at the same time of day I guess 🤷‍♂️ then in the colder and warmer seasons taking into account track temps.

I feel like the 54995 are the softest. It could be that they are new, but it feels like crawler rubber. Softer than the S-grips, marginally, but softer. Super soft sidewalls.

Same goes for the 54999 hard supers, they are marginally softer than the kit tyres (50686 hard). 

Visual differences?

There is no text/paint to differentiate between the two new compounds. The new tyres have a super shiny sidewall.

Two uppers are M-grip and S-grip.

Left center is 50686 kit tyre. Middle lower 54999 hard super and right is 54999 soft.

eUEMj3a.jpg

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7 hours ago, berman said:

I feel like the 54995 are the softest. It could be that they are new, but it feels like crawler rubber. Softer than the S-grips, marginally, but softer. Super soft sidewalls.

Same goes for the 54999 hard supers, they are marginally softer than the kit tyres (50686 hard). 

Oh wow, thank you for filling in on some of the blanks!  

I imagined 54999 to be as hard as plastic, but it's softer than standard tires!  Now I want them, as I'd be driving in the summer. 

 

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12 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

Do any of y’all know what Tamiya means by “Radial Tires”?

lol... I don't think they mean anything. They probably didn't think anybody would be sharp enough to point that out either.  (I certainly didn't think much of it!)

Since they are too small to have steel wires, maybe Tamiya uses cat whiskers instead?  

lmzMYv0.jpg

 

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17 hours ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

Do any of y’all know what Tamiya means by “Radial Tires”?

I think that they mean tyres with a tread pattern on, as opposed to slicks.

Not quite sure why they have chosen to name them radials though as they certainly don't have any strengthening cords inside - cat whisker or otherwise. 

Maybe it started as a marketing thing for real road car tyres - that they became known as radials (because when radial tyres were introduced they offered a superior ride to cross-ply tyres that came before). And since road car tyres have treads, maybe that's why tamiya uses the name 'radials' to distinguish them from slicks. 

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The S grips are the only M chassis radials you really need. I personally haven’t tried the new version of S grips myself.

I use the hard compound that comes in kit as my display / concours tyre. That’s about it.

I owned a set of M grips once, they weren’t bad.. but learned from the Mini TCS pros to stick with S Grips

 

ps, don’t let their softness fool you, they last a long time 

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@Juggular Thanks for asking and sharing! I was wondering about all those different M tires but didn't bother yet as I only have one M chassis. I like the two responses, made me laugh:

On 7/14/2021 at 2:49 PM, Juggular said:

We haven’t tried them yet.

 

On 7/14/2021 at 2:49 PM, Juggular said:

We also have yet to try them

 

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Interesting that Tamiya A + B compounds aren’t mentioned ? Or their grip points ?

Track temp, running conditions + sidewall flex (reinforced tyres etc) are way more important than all above 

As is setting up properly to match tyres / environment 

Anyone’s view is obvs welcome but debating rubber before repeatedly laying it down is brave to  say the least 

As is, advocating tyres across chassis …

Combine both + there are innumerable racers threads on here educating all 👍

Ignore them + why are we here ?

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 60D refers to the diameter of the tires.  Other manufacturers tires are shorter than 60D, except for the Ride brand sold under Tamiya.
I do believe Tamiya needs to name tires properly refraining from the terms “radial” and “reinforced”, using only “belted” and “treaded” when it is applicable.  Aside from that, here’s my experience.

Since I started in with the M Chassis cars last summer, I have used 4 types of tires. I run on newly laid lightly dusty asphalt, 65 to 78 degrees Fahrenheit, asphalt warm to the touch.


26301 Ride slicks - taller than 60D, arched profile, firm foam, seems like medium to soft natural compound.  Grips great on clean asphalt, dust quickly kills grip, taller tire yields slightly more top speed. Allows for crazy camber set ups.

50683 standard Radial 60D tires - these seem like a medium compound, general purpose tire made of a traditional chalky rubbery compound. Tread wear was horrible, grip was between fair and good on the asphalt.

50684 M-Grip Radial 60D tires - slightly better tread wear and grip than 50683 tires, feels like a less chalky rubber than 50683.

54995 S-Grip Radial 60D tires - feels more like silicone than natural rubber, moderately better grip than 50684 (the best of the bunch for my application), sidewall flex is noticeable but not unreasonable even with a heavy NiMH. Tread wear is about the same as 50684.

 

 

 

 

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Where do 50568 fit in does anybody know?

I have them on my Monte Carlo M05 Pro.

Edit: seems like they're low profile tyres, might throw up a few extra fitment/body options but what is their "hardness"?

 

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11 hours ago, djmcnz said:

Where do 50568 fit in does anybody know?

That's a good point.  50568 and 50419 seem to have the same pattern. 

But 50569 is just M-Chassis radial.  50419 is "racing radial." 

I would guess regular radial is shipped with kits, and "racing radial" is slightly softer?  

E9YmwBJ.jpg

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the MonteCarlo are smaller 55 diameter. They’re similar in compound to the original Hard S grips.

The type A/B slicks are not as widely used. Most TCS / Mini racers settled on S Grips. 
 

Then TamiyaUSA decided 2 years ago to go with the ride slicks.. which I’m betting Tamiya Japan doesn’t use for their TCS races.. hence updated versions of S And H grip being developed. This is also the reason no one at TamiyaUSA has tested the new versions 🤦🏻

The fact that Tamiya calls them S and H is also a bit annoying and confusing.. maybe S1 or S+.. 

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On 7/15/2021 at 8:27 AM, Juggular said:

For a moment, I thought you said, you run pet shihtzu.  (I love dogs)

0lsHb7q.jpg\

 

Great on carpet and grass, rubbish on lino and tiles.

On 7/15/2021 at 8:39 AM, Badcrumble said:

Thanks for making your enquiries @Juggular.

Am I right in thinking that some kits - like the M04 Giulia - come with mixed compounds?

If so, how do you tell them apart? I guess the model number on the sidewall?

All M02, M04 and M06 I believe come with S grip rear to tame oversteer.

On 7/15/2021 at 8:57 AM, rich_f said:

My M04 mazda mx-5 came with standard kit tyres on the front but s-grips on the rear. S-grips and M-grips have S-Grip and M-Grip on their sidewalls, respectively. Standard kit tyres just have the number and Tamiya on the sidewalls

As do the new Soft and Hard #54995 and #54999 tyres, same as kit (50683) tyres but with a shiny sidewall. No identification marks.

On 7/16/2021 at 4:33 AM, Juggular said:

Oh wow, thank you for filling in on some of the blanks!  

I imagined 54999 to be as hard as plastic, but it's softer than standard tires!  Now I want them, as I'd be driving in the summer. 

 

Slightly softer. Remember my findings are subjective. 

On 7/16/2021 at 1:19 PM, SuperChamp82 said:

Anyone’s view is obvs welcome but debating rubber before repeatedly laying it down is brave to  say the least.

If you are referring to me, I have tried all the treaded tyres. But all are subjective since I don't legitimately race mine in controlled conditions on a lap timed track with real world experiences, and as specified earlier, most have different foams. 

Debating rubber is perfectly fine if that is all we have to go on. It's no different to everyone's opinion in the TD-4 Super Avante thread. All he asked is why there is different tyres with the same tread.

 

7 hours ago, Juggular said:

That's a good point.  50568 and 50419 seem to have the same pattern. 

But 50569 is just M-Chassis radial.  50419 is "racing radial." 

I would guess regular radial is shipped with kits, and "racing radial" is slightly softer?  

E9YmwBJ.jpg

The #50419 is a 1.9 touring car tyre 👍

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If it’s any help @Juggular, here’s a bit of what I’ve experienced with M chassis,

First came an M-05, built stock (Tyre’s, & friction shocks) it was fine and I could see the potential but it never really got used as it hardly went around corners and wheel spun a lot.

Some time after I got an M-08, as you know that doesn’t come with tyres, so I put the M-05 kit wheels on to run it. As you would expect it was very tail happy, but a lot of fun nonetheless, hummm.

I was recommended on here that S-grip on the rear with M-grip on the front is the go for an M-08. Geez how much for a few tyres + foams? Oh well I need another set of wheels anyway. 
   That set up greatly improved the M-08 and is an absolute hoot to drive now, and more akin to being on rails. The back end still lets go but not nearly as early or as much as before.

   So the original M-05 wheels went back on the M-05.

   In a Postal Race where the cars were driven back to back the M-08 was always 3 to 4 laps ahead of the M-05. Tarmac surface with an ambient temperature around 27 degrees.

  I then upgraded the M-05’s shocks to CVA’s and some aluminium steering bits & bobs.

  Next time the M-08 and M-05 were run back to back they both constantly gave exactly the same lap counts in the 5 minute session’s.

  I never thought it would make that much difference.

  I was intending to try the S-grip on the front of the M-05 with the M’s on the rear, but I don’t want to now as the M0-8 cost a lot more than the M-05 so if it started to perform better than the M-08 that would mess with my head to much so it’s staying on its kit tyres.

  I’d have to buy an M0-7 to try the S’s on the front with M’s on back configuration as that would be more understandingly better than my M-08.

 

P.S Thanks for your intitial first post as I had no idea that the different M tyres were suited to different temperatures as well 👍🏻

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2 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

M-05 so if it started to perform better than the M-08 that would mess with my head to much

lol... somehow I can understand. 

 

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Wasn’t referring to you @berman - and there was no slight on anyone debating anything here 

Far from it ! 

My point was tyre performance at the level being discussed usually needs a baseline - the objective conditions each set is designed to run in - then context - set up, temps, moisture, race times etc

Having fun kicking round other ideas is obvs fine - but there’s loads of data points underpinning a variety of tyres / conditions if anyone wants to look 👍

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15 hours ago, Juggular said:

lol... somehow I can understand. 

 

And the fact that the M-05 is a 2CV and the M-08 is a Mini also means that there is no way a 2CV should be faster than a Mini in true representation either, that would just be ridiculous.

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