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ThunderDragonCy

Thunders Racing TA02

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@Grastens Sorry to hear you had trouble.  i suspect mine was fine because it's so under geared. Yours is a rally car, isn't it? I think offroad is harder on motors. I haven't bought a fan for mine yet.

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It is - but even when I ran a 16T pinion to calm things down, the issue was still quite dire. I then had the worst of all worlds: slow and too hot :P

That gear set can't come soon enough...

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I took the plunge on an LRP Trinity V10 Spec6 12x2 motor. Claimed top speed of over 36000rpm should give me similar performance with the 8.6 gear to a cup motor with around 6. Means i can race my TA02 competitively before the high speed gearset arrives.

Initually i am going to see if my 1060 esc is up to the job. I installed the motor today with a spare 20t hardened pinion from my spares box, but i was getting horrendous noises under acceleration and especially braking. After much investigation i put the kit 21t pinion back and it's perfect. The kit pinion seems to have deeper teeth even though both are definitely 0.6mod. Weird. Maybe the Fastrax metal motor mount i have isn't the best copy for pinions other than 21t? Whatever, i'll get a trusty RW Racing 21t pinion and i will be set.

Handling wise, it stills pretty good even at the higher speeds so hopefully it's a good base to start from. I chugged a load more 2 million oil in the front diff because it's so big the original blobs had been flung to the outside allowing free diff action. Despite stuffing a load more in there's still significant diff freedom, but there is at least some resistance now. If it stays like that i'll be fine.

Finally, i have been wondering about batteries. Hardly any of my batteries fit the tub chassis despite cutting away some of the rounded edges. Without the MSC deck on top i can drop shorties and my thin race pack in no problem, but it isn't stiff enough to leave that off. I don't really want to go to the double deck chassis though. This wasn't supposed to be super fancy! After a bit of head scratching i think i have the solution. I have designed some adapter parts to allow the fitment of a standard FRP or carbon TAO2/FF01 top deck. This will give me space to drop shorty packs in from above. I have an alternative narrow top deck already drawn for my FF01, so if i get these adapters 3D printed i can just get 2 of the decks from fibre lyte and its sorted. 

I need to bump up my 3d printing order so if anyone wants any of my parts, or has an stl they can send me, i will get it done with mine.

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3D print delivery. First try at some parts to mount a top deck to replace the MSC tray. 

20210914_200450 20210914_200455

It was supposed to be a direct fit for the stock TA02 / FF01 top deck, but i got my calcs slightly wrong. The rear bulkhead is a couple of mm too far from the front. I just about got the deck off my FF01 to fit.

20210914_200307

I have a carbon deck drawn up which was supposed to fit on my FF01 as well, but seeing as the 3d printed parts minimum order is more than the carbon, i will stick with the FRP on the FF01, and i have adjusted the carbon deck to fit the parts as they stand. I ordered the top deck from fibre-lyte.

 

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Raced! Ran it at full pace with the 12x2 motor and was suffering some understeer. Switched to medium fronts and seemed much better.

20210918_154700

In the race it handled fine, but acceleration seemed really soft and thecl speed wasn't great. Seems the ball diff had loosened to the point of no longer being engaged. It was basically fwd! I didn't have all the tools to fix it so i raced my FF01 instead. Lucky the diff isn't melted, just completely loose. I have tightened it down hard and will go again next week.

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On 8/4/2021 at 6:39 AM, ThunderDragonCy said:

@Grastens Thanks for the information. I am a bit concerned about motor cooling. What is the tamiya heatsink for this chassis?

I was thinking of this yeah racing fan mount to fit the end of the motor. 

s-l300.jpg.932e254554ea73154e595ac660343232.jpg

Thats a good heatsink for a TA-02 I use one myself

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Fibre lyte delivery. My carbon top deck arrived, and fitted perfectly.

Tamiya TA02 carbon top deck by CTE RC

M3x8 screws at the rear are flush with the new 3d printed part so battery install is still good. Replaced m3x10 stock screws at the front with m3x20 and it is spot on. Really pleased with it.

Here it is ready to run with my legendarily poor wiring management 

Tamiya TA02 carbon top deck by CTE RC Tamiya TA02 carbon top deck by CTE RC

Now i know it fits, i have one more set of 3d printed parts if anyone wants one of these for their TA02. DM me for a price.

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Raced today. Did a shakedown to figure out the handling now the rear diff is working and there was a lot of understeer. Ended up running the super stiff short spring set 2 springs on the rear to get the balance, but it made the car a little edgy so maybe should have gone softer on the front instead? Also ran my old race blob just for todays final race of the outdoor season just to minimise faff sharing the Alfa DTM shell with the FF01.

20210925_142139

First race had some really good speed and the handling wasn't too bad, but i made a lot of silly mistakes, mostly in traffic as usual. Really need to work on that. However, i took fastest lap and my best 10 average was right up there too so i was much encouraged.

For race 2 i lowered the rear ride height a little to try and make the car a little easier on the brakes, and again the speed was good, but about halfway through i started getting really odd massive oversteer on the exit of right handers under power. I could drive around it with some care, but it made me crash a few times. Got to the end with a solid 13 laps but an increasingly difficult car. On inspection, the rear diff was still tight, but the car was 3 wheel drive. The diff splines had stripped! The reliability of this TA02 is bothering me. Any suggestions once i get some new pressure plates? It's quite vexing when the same diff type in my FF01 has run faultlessly for over an hour of racing this year. I can't really see how a gear diff would be any better. Maybe glue in the outdrives?

Also on handling, the front gearbox has a lot of kickup. I have another set of my 4 deg caster hubs. I was wondering whether installing these backwards to bring the steering back towards what is more usual for touring cars these days?

So that's it for outdoor season. Not sure how many indoor races i will make, but i need a new shell for this; something compact with small overhangs.

And i have mixed feelings. I bought this because i wanted something with good spares support (unlike my FF01) that was more refined and easier to handle than the TT01E. Although there is clearly some speed in the chassis, its been very unreliable compared to the TT01, and even my FF01. And what is also niggling is that ever since i rolled the dice and started racing my FF01, it has been an utter joy, and yesterday was no different. Just wondering whether i shoukd just concentrate on my FF01 and try and hoard some spares. That said, indoor racing is way harder on a car, so i am a bit wary of running that inside.

Still, i have sold my TT01E now so the TA02 doesn't really owe me any money at the moment, so I'll see if i can sort the diff reliability and get into a groove with.

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On 9/26/2021 at 10:16 AM, ThunderDragonCy said:

Raced today. Did a shakedown to figure out the handling now the rear diff is working and there was a lot of understeer. Ended up running the super stiff short spring set 2 springs on the rear to get the balance, but it made the car a little edgy so maybe should have gone softer on the front instead? Also ran my old race blob just for todays final race of the outdoor season just to minimise faff sharing the Alfa DTM shell with the FF01.

20210925_142139

First race had some really good speed and the handling wasn't too bad, but i made a lot of silly mistakes, mostly in traffic as usual. Really need to work on that. However, i took fastest lap and my best 10 average was right up there too so i was much encouraged.

For race 2 i lowered the rear ride height a little to try and make the car a little easier on the brakes, and again the speed was good, but about halfway through i started getting really odd massive oversteer on the exit of right handers under power. I could drive around it with some care, but it made me crash a few times. Got to the end with a solid 13 laps but an increasingly difficult car. On inspection, the rear diff was still tight, but the car was 3 wheel drive. The diff splines had stripped! The reliability of this TA02 is bothering me. Any suggestions once i get some new pressure plates? It's quite vexing when the same diff type in my FF01 has run faultlessly for over an hour of racing this year. I can't really see how a gear diff would be any better. Maybe glue in the outdrives?

Also on handling, the front gearbox has a lot of kickup. I have another set of my 4 deg caster hubs. I was wondering whether installing these backwards to bring the steering back towards what is more usual for touring cars these days?

So that's it for outdoor season. Not sure how many indoor races i will make, but i need a new shell for this; something compact with small overhangs.

And i have mixed feelings. I bought this because i wanted something with good spares support (unlike my FF01) that was more refined and easier to handle than the TT01E. Although there is clearly some speed in the chassis, its been very unreliable compared to the TT01, and even my FF01. And what is also niggling is that ever since i rolled the dice and started racing my FF01, it has been an utter joy, and yesterday was no different. Just wondering whether i shoukd just concentrate on my FF01 and try and hoard some spares. That said, indoor racing is way harder on a car, so i am a bit wary of running that inside.

Still, i have sold my TT01E now so the TA02 doesn't really owe me any money at the moment, so I'll see if i can sort the diff reliability and get into a groove with.

One answer is for sure: Glue in the outdrives. The quality of these parts is far from that in the 90´s. But on my TF Evo it was already recommended to glue them in in the 90´s. Probably also because the Evo had the lightweight aluminum diff parts. On my 40 years 934 I lost the outdrive on the first run, so Im back in the 90´s and glued it in, before the loose fit wears it out to death...:)

Cool story @ThunderDragonCy, And I think you are on the right route to make it perform even better! The reduced castor is definetely a hop up, and was done already by Tamiya back then, with the aluminum c-hubs Option part, that reduced the castor. Can´t remember the exact values, but it works. Just hard to get nowadays. All the aftermarket Aluminum TA02 bling has the stock castor values and doesn´t help. 

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@ruebiracer Thanks for the advice and kind words Matthias. We have some 648 at work, and i have ordered some more pressure plates so that should sort. Need to check if the kit uses the hardened outdrives before i glue them. 

I think i will persevere with the TA02. It has been easier to sort than the TT01E by some margin and it definitely has speed if i can keep my driving tidy and the car holds together. 

Good information on the caster c hubs. I have a set i designed on my FF01 plus a spare set. I'll get some short turnbuckles to make some camber links and put the caster hubs on the front of the TA02, see how it runs. Thanks.

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No problem my friend,

love all your projects!:)

The Loctite 648 is the end solution, if you have new outdrives, some rubber glue or gel type Cyano should do the same trick and hold up. They are probably easier to get out again, in case you have to replace the bearings. With a little luck, we also should see the rare Aluminum diff plates from the Rerelease of the TF Evo hitting the shops. At least I hope so, to repair my M02 chassis diff.

I remember you made some C-hubs with different castor for your FF01! Top idea, by the way. I have some TA04 or TB01 std. C hubs built into my 934, as I didn´t want to risk the rare aluminum parts. They also reduce castor. I just can´t remember, from which car they came from. But I can look it up, if you are interested in these alternative parts...

By the way: Thanks to your TB03 thread, my TB03R is in it´s restoration phase and already saw one battery pack at the track. ;)

Kind regards,

Matthias

 

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@ruebiracer Thanks. I got some ta03 diff plates yesterday and they went together nicely with some cyano glue on the outdrives. We will see.

I test fitted my spare c hubs, and they might work. The camber link will be at a weird angle, but holefully it will work.

Super glad your TB03R is running again! I have loved using mine this year.

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8 minutes ago, ThunderDragonCy said:

@ruebiracer Thanks. I got some ta03 diff plates yesterday and they went together nicely with some cyano glue on the outdrives. We will see.

I test fitted my spare c hubs, and they might work. The camber link will be at a weird angle, but holefully it will work.

Super glad your TB03R is running again! I have loved using mine this year.

My camberlinks are also angled, but with a small spacer on the shock tower it can work. It´s super tight on the rihgt side with the gearbox, but can be done, at least with the Carbon / FRP shock towers:

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/tcimages/34024/img34024_13201781631_12.jpg

Hope you can spot it. I think I used M06 adjustable camber links to build my own set. 

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Got the long screws I have been waiting for so finally got to try and install this part I designed - a mounting bracket for a TT02 foam bumper:

Tamiya TA02 mounting kit for TT02 bumper

I tried designing a part to replace the buggy bumper, but it was ending up very large and expensive, so I came up with this h frame item. It has hexes on the bottom of the legs which fit the corresponding recess in the TA02 bumper, and those are M3x45 screws.

Tamiya TA02 mounting kit for TT02 bumper

This is the 53mm deep foam bumper, trimmed a little to clear the shocks (just!). Top plate goes on and held down with M3 nyloc nuts. The idea was to have the foam touch the gearcase so that some of the loads are braced by the chassis, not just having the foam flapping about on the kit bumper.

From the front:

Tamiya TA02 mounting kit for TT02 bumper

And from the underside with my Spec6 shell on. 

Tamiya TA02 mounting kit for TT02 bumper

Good job this is on as the club is only racing indoors until next spring!

 

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This has sat for a few weeks wondering what to do with it. I will admit the diff failures at the last race knocked my confidence in the chassis, and with our indoor season seeming to have settled down to no one racing iconic I am a little unsure whether to move this on. It has shown glimmers of promise handling-wise, but it's going to be parked all winter at this rate. 

When I was more keen on it a few weeks ago I designed some 3d printed arms to stiffen them up and run wider track as the TA02 is very narrow indeed on race wheels. I ordered them before I kind of fell out with the car, but they finally arrived so I thought I would see if a bit of tinkering would make me more enthused. 

All the bits turned up for the front turnbuckles too so I could run my 4 deg caster uprights flipped forward to reduce the effect of the 15 deg front kickup. The arms are 2mm wider than stock and much stiffer. I use a similar design on my FF01. 

Tamiya TA02 hop ups

 

Tamiya TA02 hop ups

 

At the rear, I had some leftover TA05 driveshafts from another project which are 6mm long than the stock dogbones. As the rear track with 5mm thick hexes and race wheels is about 175, I did some thicker, stiffer arms 5mm wider each side, with a proper ball nut shock mount.

Tamiya TA02 hop ups

Whilst I am undecided about the car I just made up some camber links from some spare ball connectors and m3 grub screws. It does look the part though. 

Tamiya TA02 hop ups

 

Tamiya TA02 hop ups

 

 

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I recall being surprised by how narrow the TA-02S was, so increasing the track width seems like a good bet! Flipping the caster uprights is also ingenious.

Our high-speed gear sets may be arriving next month, so here's hoping the car can hang in there! ;)

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@ThunderDragonCy did you get an in-stock notification for the High-Speed Gearset from where you ordered? I went through Model Build and it seems they have arrived - was curious if your source was reporting the same.

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Slight change of tack for the winter. Gone rallying! Since my 306 body with the spots fits, it's my go it body for winter street running. The high speed gearset still hasn't arrived, and I can't see me racing until they go back outdoors again in aftermoons. Saturday nights just don't work for me. I had a play with my RR03 and my FF01 with these rally wheels fitted, but I don't want to wreck my FF01, and TA02 are meant to be pretty good for rally. 

So, fitted some of 3d printed rear arms from the FF01 for front mounted shock and to get the wheelbase and track width right. 

Today a full set of mini cva shocks 53619 arrived. I built them all straightforward tamiya oil, 2 hole pistons and 64mm length. 

Ta02 rally

 

Ta02 rally

At full shock entension the ride height is a little more rear than front, at around 24mm. With the super soft buggy fronts from the 50519 set fitted rear, and brown medium from the TRF201 spring set front (which makes the front stiffer than the rear) it sits around 14mm ride height on Schumacher ssr tyres. Would be a few mm higher on rally blocks. 

Had a quick run and it works great. Will happily plop off kerbs and even on the street the handling balance is OK. Will have to give it a spin on gravel soon. 

Looks great with the spot lights! 

Ta02 rally

Whilst I might yet race this next season if the gearset arrives, I am beginning to wonder about getting a ta03 instead for racing. If this proves a regular runner it might stay this way. 

 

 

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My set of gears arrived today! I hope yours are not too far off.

The specifications are promising; with the minimum pinion/spur setup of 21T/69T, you get a ratio of 8.01:1, whereas the hottest 21T/74T was 8.59:1. It looks like you can go all the way down to 6.44:1 for the tallest 25T/66T combination! Hopefully, that will wake up your TA-02 a bit for on-road racing!

As a rally car, though, the 21T/74T is working well even with a 20T brushed motor. I took 2nd at the Racing by Post challenge on tarmac with the so-equipped 037, and all at tepid motor temperatures. But then, maybe a 21T/69T combination should work well to give it some more punch off-road...

I look forward to seeing where this particular chassis goes! I think you got it right when you said the TA-02 is a good rally chassis :)

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End of the road for me and the TA02. It really is a quite delightful rally car, but I now have my FF03 built rally, and I just have never quite clicked with this chassis, so time to go. 

It's on ebay now, but if anyone on here wants it I'll happily take £75 posted UK. 

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