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Misterp180

Kyosho Raider Rebuild

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Hi everyone,

I am a very proud owner of a original 1980s Raider which other than a new set of rear tyres this year is just a she was back in the day! 

After a recent blast round my garden track a few weeks back I have decided not to risk trashing the car as it has too many memories for me.

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I have purchased a Raider from eBay with the intention of cleaning it up and bringing the Raider up to date for some back yard racing. I have built a few RC cars over the last few months after rediscovering the hobby during the pandemic and feel ready to take on a restoration/tune up project.

I am going to document as much of the build as possible over the next few months seeking helpful advice as needed from this great forum but also to act as a reference for any other Raider restoration projects in the future.

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First parts came this week thanks to RC Bearings. Some rubber bearings to replace any metal bushings and some red body clips for a little bling. The purchased Raider is in red like my original above. I have no idea what condition the body shell will be in but hope it at least useable to start with.

I am waiting on some oil filled shocks and a Carson brushed motor from Time Tunnel Models then I am going to replace the MSC, servo, radio gear etc with modern electronics. I run everything on a 7.2v Nimh pack to keep things simple.

I am considering changing the wheels on this Raider for Scorpion wheels and tyres but I am unsure if they will fit on the chassis. Any advice before I order from Kyosho Spares?

Thanks for reading and I welcome any support and guidance along the way.

Cheers

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Package two arrived today thanks to a great service from Neil at Time Tunnel Models.

Simple Carson motor. I have used mostly Tamiya Torque and Sport tuned motors so far but decided to try something different on the Raider (to start with!!).

After an evening of research on the net I settled on some Fastrax 55mm front shocks and some 85mm rears both oil filled and adjustable. They seem to be pre filled with oil and I’ll have to see how they are set up as we get going.

Just awaiting the chassis now (out for delivery apparently!) and I can start stripping them down and rebuilding them back up!

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So it seems the 85mm is going to be too big for the rear and the 55mm might be too short for the front! 😂

Lesson learnt that it is better to measure, check and measure again! I do have a spare set of Raider shocks which could be used in the meantime until I can order some more. 
 

Anyone got any advice on oil shocks that will work on the chassis?

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They have arrived! Managed to get one fully chassis with some old electronics and a rolling chassis for spares. Body is in great condition and someone even went to the effort of keeping the windows clear.

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I could probably get it all working with all the parts I have knocking about but I really want to modernise these chassis. 

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Here is the rolling chassis. I might start working on this one first as it has already been stripped down. I might need some additional screws. Considering a pack from eBay which has all the relevant sizes for this chassis. 

First job is a good clean. I am going to remove the wheels and see what is going on underneath.

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12 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

Anyone got any advice on oil shocks that will work on the chassis?

I have used Kyosho re-release Scorpion shocks on one of my Raiders.  They fit fine and work OK, but not great because they don't have a rubber bladder to compensate for the shock shaft displacement when compressed.  Part numbers SC222 (front) and SC223 (rear).

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23 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

So it seems the 85mm is going to be too big for the rear and the 55mm might be too short for the front! 😂

Depending on how much too long or short they are , you could swap over the lower mount eyes   . You can also also restrict the rear shock travel to shorten the o/a length by placing a spacer inside the damper under the piston

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Edit function doesn't work on my phone...

But these are what I put on the Raider rebuild I did a couple of years ago...  They work great IMO, much better than the originals.

 

 

12 hours ago, Champ85 said:

 Part numbers SC222 (front) and SC223 (rear).

 

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@KEV THE REV I was wondering the same when looking at the chassis last night.

I am going to give it a go rather than buying anymore shocks at this point. 

Big clean starts this weekend. Anyone got any advice for cleaning up the gear box? It looks fairly filthy and the chap who sold me the chassis tells me it has been in a loft for 20+ years!

I have some motor cleaner and lubricants coming to see if the Le Mans motor is still a runner. 

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Wipe out as much of the gunk as possible with dry cloth / cotton buds etc from the plastic and metal first . I use WD40 or similar cleaner to soak and brush the parts clean ,  then use Ciff with a brush and soapy water then rinse and dry . Finish off the plastic parts with a plastic revitaliser spray and then buff up. Metal parts go back together with grease and oil as specified. Looks like new again .

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So started to strip down the first chassis this evening to clean. This car must have loads of interesting tales! I had to record this first one….
 

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Interesting to see that these beautiful screws were all that was holding on the front wheels in place. (not sure what car these are from but they look a little like those from the RS500??) The missing bushing was replaced by a piece of plastic tube cut to size! 
 

I am sure there will be loads of gems like that while taking her back to parts. It is a lovely relaxing methodical process before the stress of reassembly and the horror of missing parts! 

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About half way through the strip down and I opened the gear box! Whoa! 
 

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The gears are a bit of a mess inside. The idle and counter gear don’t look too bad and mostly have all their teeth. The differential however is mush! Does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement differential for the Raider?B191FBD2-68F4-4481-917F-0899E82B54F5.thumb.jpeg.9f5ee2259f60a983dce38845b71c147e.jpeg

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The 'Raider' chassis was used on a few Kyosho models , it's worth searching eBay for all models , or even a donor chassis / gearbox with a good diff. . These are a weak point

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I spent three years looking for a Thorp diff for the Raider -they supposedly existing…

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17 hours ago, Frog Jumper said:

I spent three years looking for a Thorp diff for the Raider -they supposedly existing…

Thorp%20%235200%20-%20Ball%20Differentia

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4 hours ago, KEV THE REV said:

Might be a Unicorn though

Unicorns are real.  Thorp Raider diffs on the other hand…

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That Thorpe differential looks awesome. Not sure I am ever going to get one of those given how hard getting regular spares seems to be at the moment!

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Clean down of chassis one is coming to a end. I have accepted that I probably need both chassis to make a decent whole one. I am missing the motor plates from the gear box on chassis one but chassis two is looks complete. Does anyone have any suggestions on replacements?

I was lucky that my box of spares had a set of gears in another gear box which look immaculate! They are contenders for this build now but will need cleaning along with some other parts I have found. 
 

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Review of the manual has shown me that these fellas should be two sets of two so thankfully I found someone selling some replacements on eBay. Probably explains why the rear suspension looked like this once the shocks were off!

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Next weekend will be more cleaning of spare parts box and chassis number two. I want to get together a full chassis of parts before building. I am going to try and put some scorpion rere wheels and tyres on the chassis. Has anyone else done this successfully or are there a better set for fit?

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Raiders used to be easy to find and cheap to buy on eBay, but they are less common these days (as are all vintage chassis and parts), especially at a good price for a "spares" chassis.  But I think getting a spare chassis or two is probably the best way to get the right parts (plus other spares) to make a single runner that is complete.

Another option is the Rocky as it shares the same gearbox, chassis, and suspension components (except the shocks).  But the Rocky has always been more rare because they weren't as popular back in the day.

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@Champ85 I looked at the Rocky but the prices were through the roof! So far I have picked up a box of spare parts which had some more shocks and this awesome gearbox! Then I picked up the two chassis on eBay which is where this first strip down has been from. I have another one which looks super clean which I am breaking down this weekend which should give me quite the part bin for this new build. 

I started out just wanting some spares for my old car but it has gone to a whole new level!! 

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On 8/6/2021 at 1:12 PM, KEV THE REV said:

Wipe out as much of the gunk as possible with dry cloth / cotton buds etc from the plastic and metal first . I use WD40 or similar cleaner to soak and brush the parts clean ,  then use Ciff with a brush and soapy water then rinse and dry . Finish off the plastic parts with a plastic revitaliser spray and then buff up. Metal parts go back together with grease and oil as specified. Looks like new again .

This advice for cleaning was awesome @KEV THE REV. Everything seems to be coming up nearly new. I used some bicarbonate soda on the light scratches and they came up quite well. I am still on the hunt for reasonable priced plastic revitaliser here in the UK.

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Part one of my Raider Project now finished. The enjoyment of this hobby for me is about building, restoring and running my cars around my developing back yard track.

I am also getting fun out of creating short videos documenting some of the stuff I am getting up to! My daughter enjoys watching them too and I hope it inspires her to keep practicing with her RC!

Thanks to everyone for their input so far. I am looking forward to getting through the next clean up so I can start building the car back up. 

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Love the video.  It amazes me how much damage the gears have.  I mean, did the car run with the gearbox top cover off and let rocks and sand inside?  It's supposed to be a sealed gearbox!  The damage to the teeth is incredible.

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3 hours ago, Champ85 said:

Love the video.  It amazes me how much damage the gears have.  I mean, did the car run with the gearbox top cover off and let rocks and sand inside?  It's supposed to be a sealed gearbox!  The damage to the teeth is incredible.

There wasn’t much grease on the gears. Lots in the corners of the gear box but the gears were very dry. There were some stones in there when I was cleaning it too which probably explains how it is wrecked. 
How often does everyone grease the gears on their runners?

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20 hours ago, Misterp180 said:

How often does everyone grease the gears on their runners?

Not often.  I usually use Tamiya ceramic grease for metal-to-plastic and plastic-to-plastic meshed gears - the white colored stuff in the tiny 3g or 5g metal squeeze tube.  I grease once when I build it, maybe again every 20 or so runs (I don't run my cars especially hard since most are vintage).  It depends how the gears look (and if I bother to check).  If the gears still look "wet" from the grease, but clean, I won't add more grease because it will probably just sling off next run which would be a waste.  If it looks dirty, I might add fresh grease knowing it will fling off next run.  If the grease is looking grey or black, I'll take the pinion and spur out and clean them more thoroughly then reinstall and grease.  I try to use hardened steel or at least hardened aluminum pinions when possible.  They wear down more slowly, thus generating fewer metal particles to get caught in the grease and act as sandpaper.  If a regular soft aluminum pinion is used (Tamiya is famous for using these), you'll see a grey paste where there was grease after a few runs.

It's usually the pinion and spur that I look at the most.  The rest of the gears will generally keep their grease basically "forever" because they don't spin fast enough to fling off the grease.  At least for sealed gearboxes this is true.  For gears open to the environment, it's a totally different ball game.

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