What should Tamiya (RC) do/launch—if you worked for their development team?

[Nicadraus 5721]

2 minutes ago, matisse said:

Mundane by your standards perhaps, but it seems to work for them.

as for a proper basher, they are proper when used with the motors they are designed for. bashing isn't just about brushless 3S etc..

That is true. A lot of people just tend to abuse the "bashers" which are/were not designed nor intended to be ran that fast. The gears, belts and shafts especially.

[matisse 1569]

okay a proper answer:

what do i wish for? a return to Off-Road racing for TRF and a new line of Neo-ReRe cars with old bodies on new chassis.

 

What would i do?

Keep the home market secure with lines that sell well

continue releasing RERE's to maintain the nostalgia market, aiming to complete the full list of the Iconic 100 RC.

Re-start the SU line to bring kids into RC at an earlier age providing a clear path from Mini4wd - SU - full RC

Pick one emerging market to invest in, Crawler/drag etc

use the TD4 platform as a jump point for club racers in off-road classes.

 

[Dakratfink 841]

as for a proper basher, they are proper when used with the motors they are designed for. bashing isn't just about brushless 3S etc..
 
 

for the current RTR Basher crowd 3S brushless is the beginning. Shame, too. A brushed Arrma or Traxxas on 2s or even out the box Nihm is a lot of fun. And when they build them to  take the big power , but you run them mild, they are nigh bulletproof. 

[Dakratfink 841]

30 minutes ago, matisse said:

use the TD4 platform as a jump point for club racers in off-road classes

Not just this, but “spec” m chassis series for on road . And try to get the scale Monster Truck events to start going comical races as intermission and 1/2 time events 

[Big Jon 642]

If I were the boss, the M07 and M08 would be the "standard" M-chassis. The rereleases would get durability updates and reinforced plastics. There'd be an XV-02. A mid-level 2WD buggy, with scale good looks, would be on the table. New bodies for the tractors, including a Mack Granite. Better hardware for the mid-level cars. A TD-4T like the old TA-02T. 

Accentuate the positive; eliminate the negative.

[Willy iine 17949]

13 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

And 1 ltr Olive Drab rattle cans

Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to check on my paint stock later this morning..!     

[Nikko85 3009]

I'd like to see more racing trucks, like the stadium thunder, but perhaps in 4wd. Lots of buggies and a few monster trucks, but a fast realistic looking racing truck would be fun. 

I also think there are some classics that should be remade for 2021. Hornet, Pumpkin, Grasshopper, Blackfoot Clod etc. These could be redesigned to keep the look of the original but just done better. Tamiya rely on nostalgia, but it would be great if those were actually great vehicles, not just fun because of the quirks or memories.  

[markbt73 4934]

Apply the same level of scale detail and correctness from the big rigs, tanks, and 3-speeders to the touring cars and M-chassis cars. No more wrong-wheel-drive cars, no more grayed-out windows, no more wildly inaccurate track widths. Match the motor location and driven wheels of every model to the 1:1 car. Bodies can stay Lexan, but should be multi-piece where necessary to eliminate mold lines, and all mounts should be hidden, no more posts sticking out. And include a basic interior tray like the rally cars used to, in every kit, but a correct interior for that car. And develop some closer to scale-sized wheels and tires for the classics; don't slap wide modern-looking tires on a 2CV.

[nowinaminute 2795]

4 hours ago, matisse said:

as for a proper basher, they are proper when used with the motors they are designed for. bashing isn't just about brushless 3S etc..

Well to be fair, I think his point was to make something competitive with the likes of Traxxas and Arrma 3s range.

You can point to any RC and say it will be more robust with less power.

[matisse 1569]

38 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

Well to be fair, I think his point was to make something competitive with the likes of Traxxas and Arrma 3s range.

You can point to any RC and say it will be more robust with less power.

Which is even mor pointless, why take them on at their game? They are good at making boring looking cars that go very fast and have too many consonants in their names, Tamiya don’t do that and shouldn’t 

[Juggular 4661]

11 hours ago, matisse said:

Q) why should a company be considerate of your needs in this way?  

That's actually a good question that made me think.  It got me curious as to how much consumer research companies would charge big corporations.  Apparently it costs $15,000 to $35,000 for corporations like Tamiya to find out what customers want. (We all have seen things like "take the survey, we'll give you xx points," or "$50 worth of subscription free." All that costs money to devise, implement and analyze.)  It never hurts to listen to the holders of wallets.  In that sense, this thread @Mechanic AH started is literally saving them money.  Their in-house marketing just needs somebody who can read English.  

And while paying attention to Tamiya club, if they get "inspired" by a member's color scheme? (Thanks to @Ferruz)  We all benefit. 

(That looks very hard to paint, by the way. I hope Tamiya includes a big sheet of pre-cut masking tape.)

 

[silvertriple 3255]

Tamiya should just improve the re-release by taking example on what Kyosho does with the legendary series:

- improved and reinforced materials

- remove the failure points

- implement pre-cut stickers and painting pre cut masks

Opening a Lunchbox or a Hornet box is good in a sense that it brings you back in eighties. But you should be able to run them like it is 2021: it should be rock solid, and able to  take current technology instead of keeping us running like it is 1985 at the exception of the ESC. I would love to see a magnified modernized rock solid Wild One with a solid unbreakable chassis and a brushless motor able to take much abuse, for example (or any of the old buggys we loved so much)...

[Dakratfink 841]

13 minutes ago, silvertriple said:

Tamiya should just improve the re-release by taking example on what Kyosho does with the legendary series:

- improved and reinforced materials

- remove the failure points

- implement pre-cut stickers and painting pre cut masks

Sometimes this is what Kyosho does. Other times they just evoke the nostalgic name with a whole new chassis. 
The original USA 1 was independent suspension, New one is a solid axle shaft drive. More “scale “ than the original and I’m sure up to spec for modern power and bashing. 

[GooneyBird 936]

There are a couple of markets Tamiya currently has no stake in. Some might work for them, some not at all. 

Firstly; there's the basher market. Like it or not, but RC cars sell to kids who wanna 'go fast' and jump over stuff. Plus, never underestimate the wallets of the XTREME-sportz dudes who want the baddest-looking toy on the market. I'm talking the same people who buy powerboats and jet skis. Currently ARRMA and Traxxas have that market. Tamiya could butt in. How? By building something that 
- is RTR, and built well out of the box. So, ball bearings, oil shocks, metal drive train, universals on all four corners.
- Has electronics that are 3S-capable. Yes, I know.. but it's what the market wants these days. 
I'm sure they've still got the molds from the TRF801XT kicking around. Take the suspension of that thing, and combine it with a new base chassis that can hold a 550 or 750-sized brushless motor, 3S-battery, and a waterproof receiver box. Also, mold everything out of that tough-yet-flexible plastic that RPM uses. Shouldn't be too hard to reverse-engineer. Then take the body from either the Rock Sock...thing..., or the actual TRF801XT body, pre-paint it in some multi-color vomit color scheme, stick some dark chrome wheels and 2.2 allroad tires on there and watch the money roll in. What does this thing bring to the table that something like a E-Revo or Kraton can't? Not much, but undercut the pricing slightly and you've got a seller. For the nostalgia factor you could smash a lexan squarebody Chevy on there and call it Son of Clod or something.

Then there's the scaler market. I personally can't believe that the best Tamiya has come up with is the CC02. Look at what the aftermarket does with TLT1 axles! Or Clod-axles for that matter!
Alright, here's my plan; keep the CC02 going, and put as many beautiful hard bodies on as you can. Restart the line that made the Toyota Tundra, F350, and Hilux, and find a way to adapt them to the CC02. (And change the F350 to an F250. I've never seen a short-cab, long-bed Single Rear Wheel F350...) For the American market you can 100% repop the Clod-body and put that on there too. (Blackfoot body? Would that fit?) Then see if you can do a pretty Land Rover Discovery 1 or 2, maybe a newer Hilux for that Technical/Middle-east look, things like that.
Then, as a step up from that, you take the TLT1/High-lift axles and mate them to a bigger chassis. 4-link them, and make a 1:8th-ish scale lexan body on top. Keep the High-lift 3 speed but change the gearing down by a LOT. First gear should be a crawler gear, second gear an inbetween, and third gear should barely do stock-TT-speeds. For bonus points see if you can engineer a retrofit kit to remotely lock and unlock the axles. Not sure if it can be done with High-lift axles but it's a fun experiment. Look at a TRX4 or MST CFX-W.
And for those looking for a 'real' crawler; they've got the perfect axles sitting RIGHT THERE. Look at the Clod-axles. They've been in production since the late stone age (Like, there are cave drawings of Neanderthalers chasing mammoths with their Clods) so the tooling is more than paid for. Then, 4-link them by basically doing a race-Clod-chassis, and make new gear sets to gear them down. (Bigger spur and smaller pinion. Do Maths so that you can use the original screw holes in the gearbox side). 2.2 wheels on there from above-mentioned TRF801XT-derivative, but this time clad in proper rock-crawley tires. Smash some random body on top, maybe try something outlandish like the Wild One body or something (with full exo cage because why the heck not?). Go mad and make a full 2.2 comp crawler.

Then; actual monster trucks. And not of the X-Maxx-y kind (see above for the basher) but a solid-axle truck.
Keep making the Clod. I'm serious. Just. Keep. Doing. It. Maybe change the livery once again (Purple Ultra Clod Buster?) and for the love of all things, include bearings. As a hop-up, make a Behind-The-Axle steering set. Do what JConcepts did, but better because you're Tamiya and you can swing that scale advantage when it comes to molding stuff. Also, since you've restarted the line for the F350 (F250, really) and the Hilux, plonk those on top of the Clod chassis with a couple of trick body posts. Call the F350 the Super Juggernaut, the Hilux the Super Bruiser, and the Tundra the Ice Giant (Ice? Tundra? Get it?) and have your marketing department go nuts on liveries.
Next to that, make a modern solid-axle truck based around the Juggernaut's axles and a new center gearbox (obviously...). 4-link it, and take a very very good look at an Axial SMT10 or Losi LMT when designing it. Make a few roll cages to fit different bodies, and make a few different bodies to fit it. Of course include a few hard bodies from the NewClod and make a few lexan pickup trucks. Doesn't matter if they're generic bodies, modern day monster trucks aren't exact copies of Dodges/Fords/Chevys anymore either. Make it single motor out of the box, but make a hop-up for dual motors. And for the love of all things plastic, do not make the same mistake as you did with the original Juggernaut and really really make sure the gears can handle more than a pair of silver cans on a NiMH. Make sure it can do at least 2S on a pair of 1800Kvs or something.

Moving on to racing: I don't know much about offroad racing, but people generally seem pleased with the TRF201-range. Produce that, and maybe make a few conversion sets like a laydown transmission or a carpet-setup. Basically, a Tamiya XB4 2WD. Then; using as many parts from the TRF201 as you can, make a 4WD version, and a suite of parts to convert one into the other. (IE: start off with a TRF201 2WD, then convert to a 4WD or back again). If you're feeling particularly adventurous you can use the same platform to re-release the Stadium Blitzer 

Now; onroad. The mid-class TC range is fine, actually. The TA07 and TA08 seem to be the ones to beat in that class, and the FF04 seems to rock pretty hard at the new Fronti-class. But for the love of all things, Keep. Making. Parts. For some reason they've all but stopped production on the FF04 Evo and relevant spare parts. And no-one's going to run a car where you can't get parts for it. 
Bottom range TCs: The TT02, again, is fine. It's cheap, easy to build and produce, and just keep on churning them out by the dozen. The R and RRs are nice and well-received, and anyone looking for a serious TC can look at the TA or TB-range. Maybe, eventually, make a TT02 Type E with an upper deck, revised plastics for the shock towers (the TT02D-plastics seem to be the golden ticket), and keep churning them out. Also, I'm loving the funky colors. Do more of that. Make every sprue in every color. I want to see purple suspension arms on green tubs with blue hubs and a yellow center shaft. Go full bananas. Bring back the clear cars while you're at it!
Top-flite TCs are generally fine too. Make yearly update packages so the owner of a TRF420 '21, can update their car to a TRF420 '22. Go back to the old naming scheme of only increasing the digit when the bulkheads change. (TRF419 to TRF420 was confusing...). 

Then there's the M-chassis'. The M07 and M08 are fine. More bodies! Listen to the market, occasionally poll the importers in different parts of the world to figure out what people want, and try to license them. I can see the American market wanting things like MX5s, S2000s and MR2s, whereas the European market will love (more) old RWD rally cars like the Escort, a Stratos, or similar. Similarly, put a Peug 205 Rallye (the road-going version) on the M07, and for the SWB-fans out there; MG Metro. (who owns the British Leyland license anyway?)

Brings me to the bodies; see above for polling importers. You're Tamiya fercryingoutloud, you can license pretty much anything and everything if you desire. Things I think would sell:
TCs: Old-school European racing cars. Things like a Sierra Cossie, Opel Manta GSi, Jag XJS... Also, I'm sure the Americans wouldn't mind a couple of cool old muscle cars done right: Fox-body Mustang, F-body Camaro/Firebird, things like that. Maybe a Dodge Charger Shelby GLHS on a LWB M-chassis? Re-release the SN95 Mustang, and do a road-version of the current Mustang next to the GT4 version. 

Note how I'm not touching the semi-trucks. Those are actually fine as is. Maybe make an MFC04-module where the user can link the thing with their PC, Beier-style, and do their own sound sets? 

Overall; I'd like to see bearings and oil-shocks become standard across the board. I mean.... come on. I can live with the JIS-screws (they're NOT Philips heads!) but not bushings and pogo-shocks. The TBLE04S finally seems to have decent lipo support, so that's nice. For the bashers you might want to look into making a 1:8th-ish scale 3S capable ESC. Maybe license something from Hobbywing so you don't have to go about reinventing the wheel. Radio's? Never mind that. Put a bottom-range Futuba in the box for the RTR models, maybe strike a deal with them to make a 3 or 4 channel version for the crawlers, and leave it at that. Everyone and their uncle runs their own radio set anyway, and you can't please them all. 

So yeah, that's my 2 yen on this. Maybe not do all of the above things, but a general move in this direction would be nice. 
 

[El Gecko 1312]

What I would really like to see is alternate body sets for some of the more popular chassis. I thought the re-re Brat with a hardbody AND lexan was a genius move--one body for looks, one for performance.

I still don't much like the looks of it, but I applaud them for putting the Super Storm Dragon on the Hornet chassis. I think we need more of that--design a few vintage-style bodies for the Hornet or SRB or ORV chassis (or all three please!), and they'd sell like hotcakes.

I do also think their chassis could do with a materials update. I'm sure the plastic and metal formulas have changed over the years, but they could at least address some of the known weak spots. (looking at you, ORV diff gears)

[nowinaminute 2795]

3 hours ago, matisse said:

Which is even mor pointless, why take them on at their game? They are good at making boring looking cars that go very fast and have too many consonants in their names, Tamiya don’t do that and shouldn’t 

You say that but Tamiya were so much more than niche and nostalgia in the 80s.

Why not be dynamically competitive and good to look at, at the same time?

And you say they don't do that but they have certainly tried with varying degrees of success. The TNX was clearly an attempt to get on the T-Maxx bandwagon and had they decided to copy the E-maxx instead, things may be very different now.

Boring looking cars that go fast....

Let's not try and defend Tamiya too much by claiming that their uncompetitive models are all intentionally so.

Tamiya was certainly not out to make rear of the pack vehciles at the peak of their popularity.

Instead of trying to direct ad hominem attacks at dynamically superior alternatives, why don't we hold Tamiya to the same standards they used to hold themselves to? 

Same for crawlers, too. CC-02 could have been as capable as any other scale crawler out there and still be a fun to make kit with exactly the same body shells. Don't dismiss better crawlers, criticize Tamiya for making something functionally inferior to an FTX Outback with not a single advantage to justify the inferior performance.

[Nikko85 3009]

1 hour ago, GooneyBird said:

Keep making the Clod. I'm serious. Just. Keep. Doing. It. Maybe change the livery once again (Purple Ultra Clod Buster?) and for the love of all things, include bearings. As a hop-up, make a Behind-The-Axle steering set.

I agree with this. I quite like the look of a clod, but the idea of having to get a third party company parts so that the steering works seems really odd to me.

I'd like something like a reboot of the classis, designed using the originals, but integrating new parts where needed. G2 versions of the classics that look the same, and share some of the same parts, but are just better, whilst still being 100% Tamiya.

 

[nowinaminute 2795]

2 hours ago, GooneyBird said:

For the nostalgia factor you could smash a lexan squarebody Chevy on there and call it Son of Clod or something.

This seems like a no brainer to me. The body and wheels alone makes a night and day difference.

It's not as if the chassis of a WT-01 for example, is any more inherently interesting than a Stampede chassis. It's the bodies that make those trucks special. Works the same for the Traxxas.







I know which one I'd leave on the shelf.

Same with the Slash:











And even the X-maxx:





Something very familiar about that last one....

[Hudson 53]

I’d set about trying to match the creative prowess we saw in the mid 80’s in the buggy range. Hornet Frog Fox Hotshot Boomerang Wild One, all of these imho are wonderful looking buggies still today.

I don’t see any particular reason why a good design team couldn’t create the 2021 versions of the aforementioned, backed up by good box art, decals, colour scheme, name etc.

It feels a bit like we’ve accepted now that all modern buggies are just boring and generic with more emphasis on performance.

Perhaps we can say that the Super Avante is an attempt to do what I’m talking about. I’m a fan of this buggy and will definitely be buying one.

Interesting to see the new Wild One release with alternative design scheme, although this has sort of been done before this feels a little different with third party decals etc. There could be a lot of mileage here for Tamiya, the Fox for example with different colour scheme, decals, wheels etc

 

[Unknown Driver 262]

I'm glad they're still alive and kicking. I'll be buying their re-releases and new releases for a long time. I don't much care for the 'basic' chassis (TT02, etc) but there's plenty of the more complex offerings to keep me building until retirement (I'm 37). But...

0. Fix the supply chain. I realize some of this is due to Covid - but even in 2018/2017 my LHS complained that it was always a waiting game with Tamiya distribution. I know personally, I would have 'impulse bought' a few kits this year IF they were in stock. That money went toward ebay cars for restoration instead because I don't like paying for something without a firm expectation date (which you never get).

1. I'd push for a little more innovating and mid-level kits. Look at the ORV chassis - there were a TON of versions of that chassis: Frog-ORV, monster-ORV, then the super-ORV, then the king-ORV chassis for example. It gave you a reason to buy the next iteration of something you already loved/had while not throwing away part commonality. My impression (albeit probably flawed) is that if you take away the re-releases, the overall Tamiya lineup is heavy on entry-level chassis.

2. Bring back the unique and detailed monsters. If you compare the original Mud Blaster, Monster Beetle, and Blackfoot - they shared the same platform, but were different in many ways (bodies, shocks, tires, rims, etc). Compare that to the last iterations of the Blackfoot and the Mud Blaster II. The only difference is the bodies, and the poor Mud Blaster is just a lexan body. WHY HAVENT WE EVER SEEN AN UPDATED MONSTER BEETLE!? Super Beetle, Xtreme Beetle, KING BEETLE even!

3. Replace the TBLE02, friction shocks, and white bushings across all but the low-end kits. If I'm spending between $200 and 300 for a 'mid-level' kit that isn't even RTR, there's no excuse to skimp on these things. (I'll cite as evidence the re-re Terra Scorcher which sells for around $190 USD and comes FULLY ball raced with oil shocks and sway bars AND the newer ESC (TBLE04?). THAT feels like a value. Including a 'free esc' isn't really helpful if i can't run LiPos and can't tolerate even a mild brushed hop-up motor.

4. Acknowledge and address the threat of super-cheap chinese RCs (WL Toys). Maybe this means a new line of RTR entry-level cars, or maybe it means ceding that part of the RC market and focusing more on nostalgia and what Tamiya (used to) do best: hard bodies and details.

[isomer1 175]

On 8/22/2021 at 7:19 PM, Superluminal said:

A Tamiya Spares & Hop-Ups Division that keeps up to date with stock and distribution of parts for longer than about eight minutes after a kits initial release.

Yes, yes, yes! A million times yes. No reliable replacements mean kits sit on shelves unused, means people get tired of the hobby, means we don't get new blood in the hobby. Reliable parts (maybe do different color runs) would be far more exciting than new kits.

[Jonathon Gillham 4515]

No one will be surprsied that I want TRF and TA type buggies but thats probably not happening.

The gap I can see now is the mid range cars. The M07/8 and TA/B cars are now only sold in Pro and R versions. No body, motor, tyres, esc etc. The TT02 are very basic but the obvious entry point, and that price gap has grown compared to a few years ago when the TA and TB series cars had an entry level kit.

So downgrade the TA07 Pro and TB05Pro, give them CVA instead of TRF shocks, rear dogbones instead of universals and I'm sure there are some other parts, add a body, esc, tyres and get the price close to a TT02. Great entry level car that can actually go club racing (obviously will sell a lot of blue to go with it once they start racing). In theory the TT02 can do this but it can't in practice despite specific classes existing. There is no suitable kit to start with, all need extra spent on them, and they aren't reliable enough. Also there is so much slop and play, they aren't a great intro to the hobby. This would remove a lot of frustration for first timers and probably sell well. The number of threads on rctech about what car to start, there is nothing really suitable in this part of the market. And, no investment from Tamiya (except in boxart, they should sell them in white boxes with pictures)

[Mechanic AH 579]

Loving the responses! After a long day at work, I'm sitting down and drinking, while reading and getting entertained. I'm with some on TRF and spare/hop up parts, better electronics, etc. I want TRF tools too.

On 8/23/2021 at 2:19 PM, Juggular said:

 It never hurts to listen to the holders of wallets.  In that sense, this thread @Mechanic AH started is literally saving them money.  Their in-house marketing just needs somebody who can read English.  

I do wonder if they will listen today or pay much attention to the market outside of Japan. Back then they did with the TRF line but now that's gone. It seems like they know their products will sell no matter what. I think Tamiya is in a very unique position compared to other RC brands.

[Juggular 4661]

28 minutes ago, Mechanic AH said:

I do wonder if they will listen today or pay much attention to the market outside of Japan.

I do too. As you say, they can make whatever suits their fancy, and it will sell to some degree. 

TXT's inspiration was started in the west, I believe.  For years preceding Juggernaut 1 and 2, people have been making rigid axle monster trucks with greater articulations.  Following that trend led to one of the best sellers.  Crawler boom didn't start in Japan either. That trend lead to CR-01 and CC-02.  Considering how cheap it is to make yet another CC01, those all-new chassis were a big investment.  So I think there is some influence.  

Even if our voices are small, I think it's better to let it out.  Like they say, if we don't try, our chance of failure is absolutely guaranteed. Tamiya will never know what's in our minds.  If we express what we want, it's not nothing.  If 1000 of us say something 1 might get his wish. That's 1 in a 1000 chance, but we'll all be happier for it.  

 

[Dakratfink 841]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:31 AM, Hudson said:

It feels a bit like we’ve accepted now that all modern buggies are just boring and generic with more emphasis on performance

A lot of this with 1:1 cars, too. 
Mazda has done well with the current Mx5 Range, and the American “Big 3” do all right with their current range of Flagship retro styled  muscle cars ( though , the re hash the 60’s style in the 21st Century look  has itself become a design cliche )