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jonboy1

most irritating design feature

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So, with the current shade throwing on the TD-4 about it's battery access and @Mechanic AH's post on the "worst Tamiya Kit every fan should build" I was curious what people have found to be the most irritating feature of any build.

For example - (this is two combined into one) the huge amount of slop between the rear swing arm and the gear housing mounts on the SRB chassis, and, that one of the little grub screws to lock the torsion bar to the swing arm can only ever be accessed by removing the motor first.

My personal favourite though, has to be the Durga motor mount (as I was reminded this weekend when I changed the pinion gear) - here's a picture for you:

image.thumb.png.f84896cb09db3265f42ffecdad68dea4.png

So the upper bolt is bad enough to do - as you need to get the bolt and washer under the belt and into a blind slot and lined up with the hole in the motor all at once. But the real blighter is the bottom one, as not only do you have all the same issues as with the top one, you also have to get the screw and bolt lined up whilst access is through a little window in the far side of the chassis, across a bunch of ridges designed solely to knock the bolt off your allen key, then over a lip which has a chasm the other side, over the belt, then in through another slot and lined up with the hole in the motor - none of which you can see. If that wasn't bad enough, the hole in the motor mount for the motor spindle and pinion to go through isn't - as in, you can't get the pinion through the hole, so you can't mount that first or drop the motor back far enough to see if the bolt has got through the slot to align it in line of sight first, at least not without removing the pinion you just cursed trying to attach through a belt. Then, to top it all off, having adjusted the position of the motor to ensure you have a good mesh with the spur gear, you put the cover on with all 8 bolts only to be dismayed to find your transmission has locked. Why? Because the spur gear can slide up and down in it's U shaped slots in the motor mount without the cover on, changing the mesh, so to be really sure it's ok, you need to put the cover on with at least 2 screws into the mount before undoing them again and taking the cover back off to nip up the motor mounts.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging here, but I've designed seriously complex machines for over 20 years, and if I ever had to present this as a design I'd get told to rip it up and start again. I honestly don't know how I would fix it as a concept, I think it's a real case of designing yourself into a corner.

All that said - I still adore my Durga and just spent several happy minutes looking at all the detail on it after it was all back together - it's a beautiful machine. And with a 5.5T motor, 2S and a 25T pinion I can absolutely confirm it's crazy nuts fast and a total scream to blast around! I wouldn't change a thing about it :) 

 

What about you? :) 

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The small c-rings (BR1) that hold the gearbox joints in on the 959 and Celica. Try getting them off again!

image.png.5e361aed421f1628d8885102ba5a0c6f.png 

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For me, I do not have much Tamiya RC yet, it is having to strip the rear end of the TT01 (original, not sure about the E) to change the spur gear. 

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The battery tray on the Grasshopper.  Despite owning several, I haven't actually run a Grasshopper or Hornet since my return to RC in the mid-00s, and this might be why.  Going over a small bump or jump only to find the battery dragging along behind the car is a bit annoying, especially when it's your only battery.

Another one is the battery tray on the DF-03, but for almost the opposite reason.  On the box, it advertises convenient battery access without having to remove the body - but how are you supposed to unplug the battery from the ESC without removing the body?  Especially on the Dark Impact (which was the first body available on the DF-03) which fits so close over the tub.  You can't feed the ESC connector through into the battery tray because there isn't space for battery, wires and two connectors under there.

In fact, while we're at it, there's barely space for a battery.  Round-case LiPos might have been uncommon when the DF-03 was released, but NiMHs were absolutely the norm here in the UK, and it's hard to get a NiMH pack into a DF03 and get the tray back on and get the tight-fitting pin through.  At least it was with the NiMHs that I had in those days.

The XV-01 has a similar issue with battery space and electrics.  It's so tight for space under the chassis that I had to abandon my first two choices of brushed ESC and fit a smaller brushless system.  Then I had to make all new motor wires to reach because the ESC location is fixed by the chassis design (in fairness a front motor car will usually need longer motor wires).  Making motor wires is OK but I don't have the tools or parts to make longer sensor leads.

And the battery suffers too.  Again there's the issue of getting the battery plug in a place where it can be accessed from the battery tray without it stopping the battery going in.

The one that drives me mad on track, is the TB-01 motor mount.  Swapping the pinion involves a complete tear-down of the back end to open the chassis halves.  The plastic tub is made from that plastic which strips easily when re-screwed, so every time I swap a pinion during a race meet I feel like I'm taking the chassis closer to the junk yard.  Probably the race-spec versions are better, but I've never raced with those, and I like my plastic tub for rallying.

In the subject of pinions - any Tamiya chassis that needs one of those little cap things to position the pinion.  I have half a dozen different ones in my toolbox and I can't remember which are for which chassis because they all look the same (but they aren't).  Just put a convenient measurement in the manual, or better still, give us a window so we can see the mesh.  I really need to measure and document the positions for all my chassis.

And following on from that - any car where the pinion needs to me mounted "backwards" (i.e. with the grub on the outside, not the inside), but where the pinion doesn't need to be directly against the nose bearing, i.e. you need to space the pinion a little way off the nose.  FF01 is a good example and the FF02 isn't much better.  If you have a motor with a short shaft (e.g. the Team Powers Cup Racer motors mandated by the Iconic Cup), you don't have much shaft left to tighten the pinion against.  It's frustrating to drop out of a race because the control motor isn't compatible with either of the class chassis.  Right now my FF01 is wearing its spur gear unevenly because only half the pinion is in contact with it.  Largely I blame Team Powers for this, in the same way I blame 95% of round-case LiPo batteries for making them the wrong size for Tamiya chassis.

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@Mad Ax - do you feel better for getting all that off your chest? I could almost hear the keyboard getting pounded from here!;) 

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The XV01 battery access being on the underside of the chassis and it being secured by Philips head screws means that they fill with dirt every single time.

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Since your title did not say Tamiya, can I go off brand? One of the things that irritate me are why the badword do many after market ESCs put Tamiya plugs on and yet do not size or have the length of wire for their switches for Tamiya chassis? They are almost always too small and too short. Some like the HW1060 actually are quite good with rubber covered switched, but useless in most Tamiya chassis OOB!

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So many to choose from!!!!

I’m gonna go with a pair from the DF01/TA01

the coathanger drive shaft that connects the front and rear gearboxes, love watching that flex out as the power goes on…..

and the classic rear gearbox lid, which conveniently flex’s and splits…….

oh and the metal (alloy cheese) idler gear…

 

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I work on 1:1 cars so 1:10 does not intimidate me as at least I can easily pickup the car and flip it over with one hand at will.  

That said, besides my near vision deteriorating, leaking oil dampers irritate me the most.  It's weird because not all red o-ring dampers leak.  I've tried the clear o-rigs and Slime, but these days after a week trial period if the dampers leak even a little I swap to TRF x-rings.   No leaks.  

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DB01 and 501 are just a pain in the *** to work on.

Bottom mounted batteries on DF03/XV01/TA06. Also DF03 - why the weak plastics on what could have been a nice little club racer.

TRF415 diff access - who want to remove a complete bulkhead to get to a diff, other TRF cars guilty of this too

M08 - I know they wanted a lot of parts commonality with the M07, but that build needs way to much fiddling and filing for a Tamiya kit. Also M07 hubs that you have to drill a hole in - why isn't this already there!

CC-02 - looks like they made an effort to be able to add a slipper clutch, but no clutch is available.

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CC-01 steering. One of the crappiest steering sets I've seen and tried. It's absolutely a design flaw.

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6 hours ago, Mad Ax said:

The battery tray on the Grasshopper.  Despite owning several, I haven't actually run a Grasshopper or Hornet since my return to RC in the mid-00s, and this might be why.  Going over a small bump or jump only to find the battery dragging along behind the car is a bit annoying, especially when it's your only battery.

Only ever owned 1 Hornet. Never had one back in the day. Got one off eBay a year or two ago. Hot Glued Velcro when I first got it running , until my Ampro door with the pin clip design arrived. I’ve run it that way since. 
Flaws in other brands: The Traxxas T Maxx is just as iconic for a Nitro truck as the Clod is for an electric. And the stock steering is just as bad. 
I have owned both AARMA and Associated. Short course trucks which I bought used and required aftermarket chassis braces and or bumpers to repair known weak points in both . 

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5 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I work on 1:1 cars so 1:10 does not intimidate me as at least I can easily pickup the car and flip it over with one hand at will.  

That said, besides my near vision deteriorating, leaking oil dampers irritate me the most.  It's weird because not all red o-ring dampers leak.  I've tried the clear o-rigs and Slime, but these days after a week trial period if the dampers leak even a little I swap to TRF x-rings.   No leaks.  

This experience will stand you in good stead for the Sand Scorcher shocks 😂

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13 minutes ago, Grumpy pants said:

This experience will stand you in good stead for the Sand Scorcher shocks 😂

Haha.. Yes, I read about the leaky factory dampers!  

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I assume we all mean besides the lack of ball bearings in most kits... I can think of two general universal areas where Tamiya's designs constantly frustrate me.

Steering linkages/servo-savers: I don't understand why Tamiya steering designs always seem to be an afterthought tacked on after the rest of the car was designed. It's almost like the cars that have good tight steering with no bump steer (FAV/WIld One comes to mind) are only that way out of pure luck. Otherwise, they're either totally the wrong geometry, like the Hotshot and Blitzer, or absurdly complicated and therefore sloppy, like the CC01. And those nylon-spring servo savers that every car seems to use are a cruel joke. Sure, there are work-arounds and aftermarket solutions, but why not put a little more thought into it in the first place?

Battery retention: They've never been very good at this. The battery door on the Grasshopper/Hornet falls off if you land a jump wrong, so on the GH2/Super Hornet, they added body clips that are impossible to get in and out without jabbing one under your fingernail. Lose or break that silly little white plastic battery door pin on your Blackfoot, and you're scrounging through Grandpa's garage looking for a bolt and nut the right size so you can keep playing (ask me how I know). And the less said about the Boomerang's battery door, the better. The newer designs seem to be OK; the G6-01 is easy to swap batteries in and fits modern packs with ease. But I was astonished to find out that the Bruiser still wants you to use rubber bands for the battery hold-down; seriously, a $1000 kit, and you couldn't throw in a couple of Velcro straps?

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I am going to be building a GF01 soon with plastic bushings and friction dampers to see if it really makes that much of a difference back to back with my other GF01’s that run bearings and CVA’s (with x-rings of course!). 

Dampers yes, but bearings?   I don’t know, when I was a kid I had no money to buy bearings and it drove okay until the bushings were worn and front tires chattered like a shopping cart wheel.. 

My M38 runs factory brass bushings inside the gear boxes as designed and it drives fine.  Not to forget these are cars from over 35 yrs ago..  and the funny part is that the bearings are usually seized or partially seized when I buy old beat up cars.. 

I don’t agree with the use of bushings, but if it works and saves Tamiya cost, then perhaps it’s not that awful.. at least one can replace them with new bushings or bearings.   

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12 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I am going to be building a GF01 soon with plastic bushings and friction dampers to see if it really makes that much of a difference back to back with my other GF01’s that run bearings and CVA’s (with x-rings of course!). 

A couple of weeks ago I fitted CVAs to my G6-01, and felt it drove a lot better around my garden (although I hadn't given it a garden drive for a while so it might have been confirmation bias on my part).

On Sunday I took it to the beach where I could really get some speed up.  It had quite a few serious, end-over-end rolls triggered by high-speed instability.  It never had those before.  Admittedly it has a faster brushless motor in it now, so maybe it's always has this problem, but I actually found it hard to handle on the sand.  I think the point here is that just adding CVAs wasn't enough to get a performance improvement - if not set up properly, handling might be worse.  I need to have more beach trips now so I can get the setup right :lol:

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20 hours ago, markbt73 said:

I assume we all mean besides the lack of ball bearings in most kits... I can think of two general universal areas 

Battery retention: They've never been very good at this. The battery door on the Grasshopper/Hornet falls off if you land a jump wrong, so on the GH2/Super Hornet, they added body clips that are impossible to get in and out without jabbing one under your fingernail. Lose or break that silly little white plastic battery door pin on your Blackfoot, and you're scrounging through Grandpa's garage looking for a bolt and nut the right size so you can keep playing (ask me how I know). And the less said about the Boomerang's battery door, the better. The newer designs seem to be OK; the G6-01 is easy to swap batteries in and fits modern packs with ease. But I was astonished to find out that the Bruiser still wants you to use rubber bands for the battery hold-down; seriously, a $1000 kit, and you couldn't throw in a couple of Velcro straps?

Am I in a world of annoyance with the super sabre's battery door coming off? Haven't gotten to its building turn yet but it will be built and moderately run.

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Gear differential used on the Frog, Fast Attack, Wild one, Hotshot series.   The bevel gears are too small and makes unwanted crunching noises.

CC-01 steering is probably the winner, although the CC-02 bump steer also looks bad.

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11 minutes ago, TwistedxSlayer said:

Ball diffs.

 

Hate them.

 

Enough said.

Couldnt agree more - tighten them, they break. Dont tighten them enough, they break.

Much prefer gear diffs you can fill with oil of different thicknesses like the TA06 type with the machined steel gears inside :wub:

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On 8/24/2021 at 8:45 PM, Willy iine said:

I am going to be building a GF01 soon with plastic bushings and friction dampers to see if it really makes that much of a difference back to back with my other GF01’s that run bearings and CVA’s (with x-rings of course!). 

Dampers yes, but bearings?   I don’t know, when I was a kid I had no money to buy bearings and it drove okay until the bushings were worn and front tires chattered like a shopping cart wheel.. 

My M38 runs factory brass bushings inside the gear boxes as designed and it drives fine.  Not to forget these are cars from over 35 yrs ago..  and the funny part is that the bearings are usually seized or partially seized when I buy old beat up cars.. 

I don’t agree with the use of bushings, but if it works and saves Tamiya cost, then perhaps it’s not that awful.. at least one can replace them with new bushings or bearings.   

Keep us posted on your results 👍

I’m intrigued 💥

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On 8/25/2021 at 9:40 AM, Mad Ax said:

A couple of weeks ago I fitted CVAs to my G6-01, and felt it drove a lot better around my garden (although I hadn't given it a garden drive for a while so it might have been confirmation bias on my part).

On Sunday I took it to the beach where I could really get some speed up.  It had quite a few serious, end-over-end rolls triggered by high-speed instability.  It never had those before.  Admittedly it has a faster brushless motor in it now, so maybe it's always has this problem, but I actually found it hard to handle on the sand.  I think the point here is that just adding CVAs wasn't enough to get a performance improvement - if not set up properly, handling might be worse.  I need to have more beach trips now so I can get the setup right :lol:

I’d be really interested to know how you get on with this, shock, handling, speed dilemma.

I can’t remember did you go wide with this G6?  

Or is it just an excuse to get some more beach trips in? 😉

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@Grumpy pants I didn't go wide with the G6, because I liked the narrow look.  It fits nicely with my other 1:10 scale monster trucks as a crazy special build from those early monster truck days before it turned into a competition formula.  Wider stance would no doubt help with the handling.

I think part of the problem is that all 3 axles have different spring preloads - I just set them to get the ride height consistent and didn't give any thought to how it would handle.  As the weight is fairly even from front to rear (slightly heavier over the front on mine) it probably wants a fairly even preload.  The steering servo mounts are also an issue, they have loads of flex, and a big bump completely upsets the trim.

I'd like to do more beach trips as the race season comes to an end but fuel is getting more expensive and my budget is getting smaller, so it could be a quiet winter.  There are some good open fields near me, though.

As and when I get onto it, I'll update on the Truck of Many Wheels thread

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