Frog Jumper 3661 Posted August 28, 2021 [TLDR] What ESC/motor should I install in my Fire Dragon? Must be Lipo ready, water proof, and love long walks on the beach… [BEER] Most of you have read my Super Mega Fire Dragon build thread. At least I hope many of you have (thanks if you have - get bent if you haven’t). At the end, I installed a HobbyWing 1060 and a silver can 23t Sport Tuned. Battery is a Venom 20c/4000mAh round LiPo hard pack (fits perfectly). I’ve been running my Dragon on the street and after about 20min the motor is very hot. I attributed it to running generic rally block 2.2 tires and a 15t pinion. I’ve done this a few times and it wasn’t a concern. Perhaps it should have been… Then I ripped around the backyard (garden for you UKers) in the dust bowl our dog has created. After about 20min of running back and forth and doing donuts in the clay, the motor was extremely hot (failed 2sec touch test). I let it cool down over night and the next morning I drove it around in the street for a few minutes and it seemed fine. Later, I switched out to a 13t pinion and HS 2.0 wheels and tires. I hoped that would fix my issues. But it did not. A repeat of the backyard bash has resulted in bacon frying temps on my motor. Mmm… bacon… After a bacon sandwich, my first thought was perhaps the car’s tranny is designed for a 5 min battery run-time, ie a typical race back in the 80s. As such it is geared so that it maximizes performance knowing it will hit max allowable temp in 5min, ie at the end of a race. Since I’m running a slightly hotter battery and running much longer, I’m essentially exceeding the car’s max allowable run-time. Or am I smoking crack??? This brings me to my first question: Anybody else running a similar rig in their TShot/TScorcher/Dragon??? What are your experiences??? How do you combat heat, or am I experiencing another problem??? I’ve added a simple heat sink for my next test drive, but I don’t think it’s going to do much of anything since it’s tucked under the body. I’m also thinking of mounting a fan. There a plenty of room under the Fire Dragon body, but again airflow will be impeded by the body. The “vents” at the rear of the FD body point the wrong way. They need to point forward to act as air scoops. But then it would look even dorkier than it does now… I also think I want to get a brushless system for the car. I thought about pulling the Tamiya 10.5 BL kit out of my Jumper but that’s a lot of work and it’s not water proof. My original plan during the Dragon build was to use this rig, but I decided I need it to be water proof and the TBLE02 commits seppuku if it’s anywhere near water. I bought buggy sand paddles for this thing and it will get ridden hard at the beach next time we go, so I need a water proof rig. So then I thought about pulling the Turnigy Trackstar out of the Bushy D, but the HW>SportTuned setup I would replace it with is inappropriate. The Trackstar took a two hour blitz at the beach this summer (two full lipos) with many wet moments and didn’t even blink… My initial thought was to pick up another Trackstar. It’s nice and the one I have has done very well. It’s also sensorless. But people really like the HobbyWing stuff. So I looked there. I was this close to picking up a 10BL120 combo. Its sensored. And then I realized it’s not water proof and I would have to proof it myself (YouTube). So I started look at the Max10 rig. It’s sensorless and water proof… So here comes my second question. I intend to do a lot of bashing and long rips with this thing. I don’t need the precision feel of a crawler and instead want to feel the full power of the Death-star as I chase seagulls down the beach… What brushless rig would you recommend??? What are your experiences??? Sensored? Not sensored??? Fuming incense stencher??? She had a Camarillo Brillo… Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted August 28, 2021 I found a 13.5T sensored Trackstar motor with a 17T pinion was a great match for the Boomerang and had no heat issues . The motor says its 3040kv but with the timing turned up its probably around 3500kv at a guess. Since you want waterproof you really need to stick with sensorless. I would think a 4000kv combo would work well with the biggest pinion, especially in wide open spaces. I have always had good luck with Trackstar too, so if you like the one you have get another one of them 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3661 Posted September 1, 2021 Anybody else have any input??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taffer 948 Posted September 1, 2021 I stick to modelsports xt-12 or xt-20 brushed esc which are waterproof,lipo ready and have a proper switch for tamiya chassis, using a tamiya superstock motor with a 13t pinion. Anything faster than a decent 20t is overkill for this chassis for lots of reasons 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3661 Posted September 2, 2021 3 hours ago, taffer said: I stick to modelsports xt-12 or xt-20 brushed esc which are waterproof,lipo ready and have a proper switch for tamiya chassis, using a tamiya superstock motor with a 13t pinion. Anything faster than a decent 20t is overkill for this chassis for lots of reasons Do you have issues with motor heat??? I wonder if I have another issue that causing the heat (like drag on the driveline)??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted September 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Frog Jumper said: Do you have issues with motor heat??? I wonder if I have another issue that causing the heat (like drag on the driveline)??? The 23T Super Stock is completely different to the Sport Tuned, a lot more torque and rpm. This would be very similar performance to a cheap 13.5T brushless, but waterproof. I usually run kit motors in my rere kits but have a couple of Super Stocks and they are brilliant. I only use them for the right look in the car though, they are a pain in that they need brushes and comms skimming etc, brushless are just easier. Although, not waterproof. I think though that @taffer and I are saying the same thing - the 23T Super Stock with 13T pinion or 13.5T Brushless with 17T pinion are about at the limits of the chassis and don't go faster. Which probably means 4000kv sensorless is about the max. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3661 Posted September 2, 2021 Thanks for the info. Initially, I picked up one of the new 23t silver sport tuned. I guess it just doesn’t have the muscle… Right now I’m leaning towards a (approx) 3000-4000k sensorless BL system. Hopefully I can find time soon to go by my LHS and see what he has. I know he usually has the HobbyWing stuff in stock so it should be easy. My other thought is picking up another Trackstar system from HobbyKing, since I’ve had good luck with that in the Bushy D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted September 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Frog Jumper said: Thanks for the info. Initially, I picked up one of the new 23t silver sport tuned. I guess it just doesn’t have the muscle… Right now I’m leaning towards a (approx) 3000-4000k sensorless BL system. Hopefully I can find time soon to go by my LHS and see what he has. I know he usually has the HobbyWing stuff in stock so it should be easy. My other thought is picking up another Trackstar system from HobbyKing, since I’ve had good luck with that in the Bushy D. Actually, I now recall something in the Boomerang manual, basically don't use a Sport Tuned. It said a Dirt Tuned from memory which i think is a 25T and probably ok. I didn't think much of it at the time as I went with a brushless motor, also used to run a Sport Tuned on the standard 15T pinion BiTD as thats all I could afford and it was a step up. I haven't had anything Trackstar fail on me, except for 2 ESC which were in acceptable circumstances. They did the best part of 3 years club racing in dirt and died. I've had far more expensive ESC fail in less time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taffer 948 Posted September 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Frog Jumper said: Do you have issues with motor heat??? I wonder if I have another issue that causing the heat (like drag on the driveline)??? The motor does get warm, however to greatly reduce maintenance of the brushed motor, I let it cool completely between battery packs (although if I run one of my 4000mah core lipo's, one pack is enough for a session anyway). I hate brushless in rere kits, just doesn't look the same for that 'look' 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frog Jumper 3661 Posted September 21, 2021 I went with a HobbyWing Max10 3300kv setup. Right now I have a 15t pinion in there and it’s rocket fast! And after 20min of ripping back and forth across the dirt pit we call our backyard at full throttle, the motor was still cool as a cucumber. Beautiful! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathon Gillham 4606 Posted September 21, 2021 5 hours ago, Frog Jumper said: I went with a HobbyWing Max10 3300kv setup. Right now I have a 15t pinion in there and it’s rocket fast! And after 20min of ripping back and forth across the dirt pit we call our backyard at full throttle, the motor was still cool as a cucumber. Beautiful! A great choice. I would try going up in pinion if the motor is that cool, I expect it will have no heat issues and go even better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
