Motor names?

[alvinlwh 5895]

Having a thought recently, what's up with the way that the (older?) brushed motors are named? Some examples:

Tamiya Super Stocks - Does "stock" means original/standard? Did they take a normal motor and made it "super" and not build something from the ground up? Did they select, say the top 10% of a tray of normal motors for this "supering" process?

Tamiya Super Modified - Again, modified from what? Did they took the top 10% of a production run of standard motors to modify them and then "super" these after?

Torque/Sport/GT/whatever Tuned - Did they take a standard 540 to tune it? Probably not?

Peak Racing - (When researching for my ancient Raven SV2 23Tx2 found this) Claimed this "became the industry leader in brushed motor technology with the breakthrough technology introduced in the V2 line of modified racing motors. The new, Sport V2 (SV2) concept brings this extraordinary technology to the club and sport market."

"modified racing motors"? Modified from what? 

Are these just marking talk bs? Perhaps someone with a manufacturing background can answer this? I know that some real world car manufacturers do select a few good engines off the factory floor for further upgrades, do model motors makers do the same?

[Jonathon Gillham 4606]

Super stock was, i assume, the racing class. Now stock classes are 21.5T or 17.5T and Super Stock is 13.5T. Bitd stock was 27T and super stock was 23T, so the Tamiya super stocks would have been for this class.

Modified was the same, it meant you could modify motors which turned into run anything. Back when we ran silvercans in stock they had to be closed endbells, no timing etc. You could cheat by modifying it (a mate once prised the endbe,, off just to clean the motor, it was faster and he got pinged in scrutineering and lost points for that round and had to spend $30 on a new motor. We were just dumb teenagers who didn't know better) or run modified class, which was like if they allowed drugs in the olympics. So low turn motors, adjustable timing etc. It was a big thing back then, now a mod motor just means lower than 13.5T and they are reliable and its easy to overpower a chassis. I knwo people who just add boost to their Super Stock car and run a 13.5T in kod as they are fast ebough. Bitd it was a tradeoff between power and whether you would finish a 5min race.

The rest would be marketing. Apparently Sport Tuned used to be 27T motors with advanced timing, so basically a silvercan where they cranked the endbell around to change timing, so it was actually tuned (at the expensive of amp draw, run time, heat and life of the motor). Now they say 23T which probably means they're just a basic 23T motor with a sticker.

Some of the tuned motors like Dirt Tuned have removable endbells, adjustable timing etc, so yes they are tuned to some degree. Torque tuned doesn't, thats probably just a basic 25T motor with a sticker.

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

Super stock was, i assume, the racing class. Now stock classes are 21.5T or 17.5T and Super Stock is 13.5T. Bitd stock was 27T and super stock was 23T, so the Tamiya super stocks would have been for this class.

Modified was the same, it meant you could modify motors which turned into run anything. Back when we ran silvercans in stock they had to be closed endbells, no timing etc. You could cheat by modifying it (a mate once prised the endbe,, off just to clean the motor, it was faster and he got pinged in scrutineering and lost points for that round and had to spend $30 on a new motor. We were just dumb teenagers who didn't know better) or run modified class, which was like if they allowed drugs in the olympics. So low turn motors, adjustable timing etc. It was a big thing back then, now a mod motor just means lower than 13.5T and they are reliable and its easy to overpower a chassis. I knwo people who just add boost to their Super Stock car and run a 13.5T in kod as they are fast ebough. Bitd it was a tradeoff between power and whether you would finish a 5min race.

The rest would be marketing. Apparently Sport Tuned used to be 27T motors with advanced timing, so basically a silvercan where they cranked the endbell around to change timing, so it was actually tuned (at the expensive of amp draw, run time, heat and life of the motor). Now they say 23T which probably means they're just a basic 23T motor with a sticker.

Some of the tuned motors like Dirt Tuned have removable endbells, adjustable timing etc, so yes they are tuned to some degree. Torque tuned doesn't, thats probably just a basic 25T motor with a sticker.

Ok so stock and super stock is a classification not a description of the product. Got you.

But for "modified", the word suggest it was already done to an existing "standard" item (motor in this case), not something that can be done by the end user. Perhaps something like "modable" or "modifyable" will be more appropriate. Just overthinking it. 

I will not even get into the mess about ST having 23 or 27 turns, JP, EU, US versions or whatnots. That is just a huge can of worms.

Your DT example is a good one, was it tuned from some "standard" motor? It has removable this and adjustable that, but that is by the end user not tunED as in already done. (Yes, overthinking again)

All this is just a bit of thought exercise for discussions, don't take it the wrong way.

*Peace 

[GooneyBird 938]

I call mine Steve.  

[Mad Ax 9313]

4 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

But for "modified", the word suggest it was already done to an existing "standard" item (motor in this case), not something that can be done by the end user. Perhaps something like "modable" or "modifyable" will be more appropriate. Just overthinking it. 

Basically (and if my knowledge is correct), it's a word that's stuck from history.  Back in the old days, people would hand-wind their own motors or buy hand-wound motors.  There were all sorts of ways to modify a motor to make it more powerful.  That's why the race classes became known as Stock and Modified.

Of course not everybody knew how to modify a motor, or knew someone who did, so manufacturers got in on the act and a whole industry sprung up around selling "mod" class motors.  To start with, many were indeed modified from other manufacturer parts - just traded officially instead of "done by a fellow racer."  Soon enough, small companies were making their own motors already in "modified" trim.  They weren't modified, they were built that way, but the name has stuck.

I wouldn't get too hung up on something having the "tuned" name on it.  I very much doubt Tamiya are taking silvercans off the shelf, speed-testing to find the best, advancing the timing, painting them black and sticking on a Sport Tuned label.  I expect the Sport Tuned (and Dirt Tuned and any other motor with Tuned written on it) is made on its own production line with its own winding and its own ignition timing.  In this context, the word doesn't mean "we took a standard thing and tuned it and sold it with a new sticker on", it means "we took the original design plan and tuned it to give specific results, then built a motor based on that tuned plan."

That's not to say people don't tune motors.  In the classes I race, where a specific control motor must be used, competitors will often buy 3 or 4 examples and test them back-to-back to see which gives the best performance.  For non-rebuildable motors (which are common where a control motor is specified), competitors will clean and oil the motor after every round to ensure it's in best possible trim for the next race.

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 hour ago, Mad Ax said:

Basically (and if my knowledge is correct), it's a word that's stuck from history.  Back in the old days, people would hand-wind their own motors or buy hand-wound motors.  There were all sorts of ways to modify a motor to make it more powerful.  That's why the race classes became known as Stock and Modified.

Of course not everybody knew how to modify a motor, or knew someone who did, so manufacturers got in on the act and a whole industry sprung up around selling "mod" class motors.  To start with, many were indeed modified from other manufacturer parts - just traded officially instead of "done by a fellow racer."  Soon enough, small companies were making their own motors already in "modified" trim.  They weren't modified, they were built that way, but the name has stuck.

I wouldn't get too hung up on something having the "tuned" name on it.  I very much doubt Tamiya are taking silvercans off the shelf, speed-testing to find the best, advancing the timing, painting them black and sticking on a Sport Tuned label.  I expect the Sport Tuned (and Dirt Tuned and any other motor with Tuned written on it) is made on its own production line with its own winding and its own ignition timing.  In this context, the word doesn't mean "we took a standard thing and tuned it and sold it with a new sticker on", it means "we took the original design plan and tuned it to give specific results, then built a motor based on that tuned plan."

That's not to say people don't tune motors.  In the classes I race, where a specific control motor must be used, competitors will often buy 3 or 4 examples and test them back-to-back to see which gives the best performance.  For non-rebuildable motors (which are common where a control motor is specified), competitors will clean and oil the motor after every round to ensure it's in best possible trim for the next race.

Thanks, very interesting explanation. 👍

[SuperChamp82 743]

Some are anchored in old school ‘class’ racing per @Mad Ax - so early Tamiya RS or RX, with end bell and barrel colours / shapes denoting tune to race judges 

Later motors are more as @Jonathon Gillham describes - although only the original Super Stocks qualify (S, T, R, RR) and others being run blinky or mod depending on the race category 

Later Super Stock versions (RZ, TZ, BZ) were pure brand loyalty to drive dales 

Theres then a whole lot in between (and later) but the concept / rules broadly follow suit 👍