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Dug180

4WD G6-01 Anyone tried it?

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I was thinking of removing the front gearing and diff so that it only drive the 4 wheels at the rear, in theory this should make it go faster and less stress on the motor. 

but kinda lazy to do it, because getting into the gear box is a pain :) wondering if someone have tried this already and their experience with it. Otherwise I'll do it eventually and post my result. 

I know someone will suggest to just throwing a superstock or brushless motor, but really the Gear Ratio is too high for those motors and it always overheat and kill your ESC eventually so I really don't like it.

The fastest motor that Tamiya suggest is the GT Tuned 25T motor so that's what I'm currently using but still a bit slow, I can't keep up with my kids lol.

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I have a superstock bz with over 100 hours so far in my g601, esc is fine! (It's a hobbywing 1060 copy)

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I tried that exact combo before and car would fizzle after 10 mins or so run time. Battery still high charge, but ESC kept saying nope, it was also slowly destroying the pinion, the grease inside turned silver. 

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I run steel pinions and 2s lipo, no issues

One of your hardware pieces must be faulty? 

 

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10 hours ago, Dug180 said:

I tried that exact combo before and car would fizzle after 10 mins or so run time. Battery still high charge, but ESC kept saying nope, it was also slowly destroying the pinion, the grease inside turned silver. 

Have you changed the kit pinion for a steel one. It sounds like you have the original aluminium one installed which are about as hard as a good Camembert Cheese!!!!!

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8 hours ago, taffer said:

I run steel pinions and 2s lipo, no issues

One of your hardware pieces must be faulty? 

 

both were brand new, I might give it another go, I did remove the combo and being used on a buggy without issue now. I have swapped the pinion already. 

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also tried 17.5T TBLM-02S Tamiya Brushless with TBLE-02S and that eventually killed the motor. 

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I use a 10.5 Hobbywing and an old Speed Passion Revington in mine on 2S. It's just right for this goofy thing, and it even does tiny wheelies.

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I considered going 4wd just for the fun of it, but I think it would be very understeery without the front wheels to pull it around the corners.  Those fixed rear wheels already make it a bit understeery, it's hard to make it do fun donuts or slides unless it's on a very loose surface.

But as others have said - I've had no problems running hotter motors in mine, even had a fairly mad brushless setup for a while, it would get very hot running on grass but never had issues with the ESC shutting off.  That said I don't think I've ever run brushed in mine, only various brushless systems.

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maybe I drive it too hard on grass normally, I don't know. The Tamiya brushless motor manual all said do not use with high gear ratio on big wheels RC after breaking one motor and failing esc. Now I though better to follow the G6-01 part cataloque which only recommends Torque Tuned, GT Tuned 25T or Dirt Tuned 27T brushed motors.

I do use 4WS on mine, my G6-01 is the Volvo AH60 I think it carries a lot of extra weight compared to the School Bus and Kong head, I also installed foam insert in the tire which add more unsprung weight but it's so good for handling. 

I can either  disconnect front wheel or disconnect rear wheel.  The middle wheels always need to go

I think maybe disconnecting the rear wheel would be best so that we have the front and mid wheel going and power transfer would be more even because both front and mid wheel are (sort of) directly connected to the pinion. 

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I eventually go to this, it's been a lot of fun tickering and testing new stuff with this chassis.

In theory we are reducing the gear ratio from G6-01 6WD 37.35:1  to  something like GF-01 4WD 18:03:1 

First I tried  disconnecting the rear wheel, (power from mid and front wheel) unfortunately this is a terrible idea. The car constantly tip over and really undriveable at modest speed, don't bother trying, trust me. 

1681391485_Screenshot2021-09-26104915.thumb.jpg.1b6527d36136e76657983ce0a995c3c4.jpg

The drive cup holes is easily plugged with  a spare step screw and bolt

1600051312_Screenshot2021-09-26105010.jpg.5e384ac31f34ff8839aa75e6340968b9.jpg1211141614_Screenshot2021-09-26104941.thumb.jpg.7ce7873ac3377b0eb9976ab38f1d6e82.jpg

 

Second, I switch to disconnecting the Front wheel and drive only the Mid and Rear wheel and the result is really good! 

429053668_Screenshot2021-09-26105354.thumb.jpg.1391f0b016d2374001c363d54638c1c7.jpg

It has much faster acceleration but top speed I think is about the same, the car I think also drives better, it's more like driving a 2WD buggy, you can do a 180deg quick turn off throttle like you do with a 2WD buggy,  oversteering is increased but will still tip on grippy surface which is something I really want to reduce. 

one thing I forgot to try while I was inside the gear is to tighten the diff with maybe a diff putty or the AW grease, because the diffs are currently super loose the regular grease and I think this is a big problem on grippy surface because the wheel will lift off the ground and tip the car, so I'm hoping this will help prevent rolling over. 

 

 

 

 

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one thing everyone should get is a 3 pairs of M chassis Ball suspension shaft 51436 he suspension ball is a really big improvement for hard surfaces, great cheap upgrade. 

1659543223_Screenshot2021-09-26111006.jpg.819667628a090418db94693d976305b1.jpg

 

 



 

Edited by Dug180
bad info

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17 minutes ago, Morinstal said:

You coud use longer arms, or wheel hex extension, to reduce flipping over.

Or maybe not using mid wheel, something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_qb67KFQrY, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Drbc0v3Ps

yea I was thinking about getting 15mm wheel hex extension, though about using the WT-01 arms which will fit but will look a bit silly, I have used a 1.5mm wheel spacer for now which does have a decent effect. 

I've just tested using the diff putty give it more a limited slip diff effect (currently it's pretty much an open diff)  I was expecting an almost locked diff with the putty but it's not even close, I think i need to use like 3x 5mm putty instead of one to make it tight but still a major improvement for cornering and acceleration. It's even less likely to tip.  

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On 9/5/2021 at 1:47 PM, Big Jon said:

I use a 10.5 Hobbywing and an old Speed Passion Revington in mine on 2S. It's just right for this goofy thing, and it even does tiny wheelies.

can you tell me which 10.5 hobbywing specifically ? after some research I learned that for Brushless you need a 4 pole motor, the Tamiya brushless that I used is a 2 pole motor and really wasn't suited for it.  Specifically the 3652SD-B-3800KV Hobbywing would be the bullet proof motor of choice for the G6-01 but this thing with the ESC cost too much $$$ for what I want to spend on this crazy thing. 

Hobbywing recommends 21 - 25.5T  for monster truck and crawlers with their 2 pole Quicrun series but looking at the 1500 ish KV rating  for that it will actually be slower than the GT Tune motor 

On 9/4/2021 at 4:44 PM, taffer said:

I have a superstock bz with over 100 hours so far in my g601, esc is fine! (It's a hobbywing 1060 copy)

I tried running the Superstock again with 1060 hobbywing and as expected the overheating problem keeps happening after about 10 mins of run time, this makes sense and I really don't believe that you can run the Superstock with 6WD 37:1 gear ratio for long period.  It's just too low and too much stress for a motor that just not designed for it, I'm wondering if you're not driving it hard enough. 

the good news is that running 4WD the problem disappeared the car runs fine from full battery charge to finish, and this thing really fly with Superstock.  I think if want to go back to 6WD I'll get a 4 pole brushless 

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Have you thought about going up in brushless size ? I use a 1/8 brushless motor in my TXT-1, which has an outer diameter of 42mm, compared with 1/10 brushless at 36mm. The bolt pattern is the same as a 1/10 motor, so if there is clearance they can be bolted straight in. If it will fit it will resolve all your torque / overheating / gearing issues. The one I bought was 2000Kv, and has enough grunt for me to run the TXT at full tilt (2S) on grass for 15-20 minutes without the can even getting warm. 

FYI I used a hobbywing 4274 four pole combo. I did buy it several years ago now, and the prices have spiralled since then, but the larger motor will cope with the stock gear ratio of the model a lot better. 

 

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31 minutes ago, MadInventor said:

Have you thought about going up in brushless size ? I use a 1/8 brushless motor in my TXT-1, which has an outer diameter of 42mm, compared with 1/10 brushless at 36mm. The bolt pattern is the same as a 1/10 motor, so if there is clearance they can be bolted straight in. If it will fit it will resolve all your torque / overheating / gearing issues. The one I bought was 2000Kv, and has enough grunt for me to run the TXT at full tilt (2S) on grass for 15-20 minutes without the can even getting warm. 

FYI I used a hobbywing 4274 four pole combo. I did buy it several years ago now, and the prices have spiralled since then, but the larger motor will cope with the stock gear ratio of the model a lot better. 

 

Haven't really though about that, I'd worried about fitment issues, they usually come with 5mm shaft don't they so I will need to replace pinion as well and my Tamiya Heatsink Hop-up won't fit either and that would be a waste. Looks like Hobbywing 4274 is similar pricing to the 540 sized 3652SD and that will be Sensored as well so probably be a better choice to stick with the 540 size which should resolve the issue,  just need to spend the $$ for it.

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@Dug180

I usually run a 4000mah lipo, for approx. 30mins run on tarmac and a bit of grass...I would have thought that was an average run, I like to run multiple cars so they each get 30 mins or so each time

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I'm using a Justock 10.5, Dug. It's a plain old sensored two-pole. There's no need to use a four-pole if you don't have one around. 

The Spektrum 3300kv combo would be an ideal sport combo.

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4 hours ago, Big Jon said:

I'm using a Justock 10.5, Dug. It's a plain old sensored two-pole. There's no need to use a four-pole if you don't have one around. 

The Spektrum 3300kv combo would be an ideal sport combo.

I would definitely remove it before it breaks, I'm certain that will eventually happen if you push it hard, it took sometime before mine broke. Hobbywing only recommends that spec for touring or light duty off road (2WD)  for low ratio crawlers etc is 21T or above. 

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2 hours ago, Dug180 said:

I would definitely remove it before it breaks, I'm certain that will eventually happen if you push it hard, it took sometime before mine broke. Hobbywing only recommends that spec for touring or light duty off road (2WD)  for low ratio crawlers etc is 21T or above. 

No issues to report. It's got about a million miles on it with a 20T pinion, 2S LiPo. I've worn out a few sets of outdrives, though.

My Twin Hammers uses a Hobbywing Bandit 10.5 with a two-speed, and I've used low turn motors in all sorts of stuff. As long as they're geared properly and have an adequate ESC, it's not a problem. 

Now, the Revington ESC is a little small for the Konghead, and it thermals after about 15 minutes of bashing in my yard in Texas heat.

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It is fun that you're experimenting with this truck and I'm enjoying reading about your results.

However, I don't quite follow this part:

On 9/25/2021 at 3:08 PM, Dug180 said:

In theory we are reducing the gear ratio from G6-01 6WD 37.35:1  to  something like GF-01 4WD 18:03:1 

No matter what you do in terms of removing gears from the stock configuration, you are never going to change the gear ratio. Now, if you find a way to add new (non-stock) gears with a different tooth count, then you could potentially change the gear ratio... but simply removing some of the stock gears won't make any difference at all in the gear ratio.

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2 hours ago, smirk-racing said:

It is fun that you're experimenting with this truck and I'm enjoying reading about your results.

However, I don't quite follow this part:

No matter what you do in terms of removing gears from the stock configuration, you are never going to change the gear ratio. Now, if you find a way to add new (non-stock) gears with a different tooth count, then you could potentially change the gear ratio... but simply removing some of the stock gears won't make any difference at all in the gear ratio.

Thank you for the correction, appears you are correct, I got confused when I googled G6-01 gear ratio I got 37.35:1  but that was for the G6-01TR   both G6-01 and GF-01 gear ratio are in-fact the same at 18.03:1 but surely going to 4WD would have reduced the stress on the motor or have I got that wrong too? which makes sense that other people are doing fine with their motors.  I've already ruined a superstock and brushless motor with this car, (now back to superstock) so I really want something more reliable. So far 4WD experiment have been really positive, handling is really good lots of drifting action on dirt less roll overs and improved acceleration and speed but that maybe a biased effect, will try switching back to 6WD while memory still fresh. 

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No right or wrong answers as long as you're having fun and learning.

I own this chassis and have driven it a good bit. I've never had issues with burning out motors. It is possible there is something wrong with your truck which is causing the motors to burn out, but I do not suspect there is a fundamental flaw with the overall design which causes it, under normal circumstances, to kill motors. You should not have to drop down to 4x4 and I don't think removing one set of driven wheels from the picture will solve a fundamental problem.

I think many people are running the chassis as designed, with normal brushed and brushless motors, without trouble.

I assume you've checked the drivetrain and it spins freely. Are you running very large batteries with very VERY long runtimes? What are some of the other conditions that seem to be leading to motor failure?

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I stripped out one on the  center outputs on my G6 school bus. So guess I can answer affirmative to “Anyone tries 5WD?”

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