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GazzaRose

Dos and Don'ts for a brushless DF03 Build

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Hi Guys,

I'm thinking of building a DF03 Dark Impact, probably in the winter, and I'm looking for any tips or tried and tested mods to do while I build it.

I want something that will be a proper handful to drive, is 50+ mph possible/sensible with a ~£100(ish) brushless combo? I've had a few RCs over the years, starting with a Bush Devil when I was about 8 in 1993 (which I'm after another one to hang on the garage wall if anyones got one!) then moved on to a couple of nitro trucks. Girls jobs and 1:1 cars got in the way for a while, then me and a mate bought a couple of TT01s to mess about with, and about the same time I bought a chinese knockoff off of a HPI Baja 5b, a 1/5 scale petrol buggy, that was great fun, but noisy and smash itself to bits at the merest hint of a crash. Fast forward about 15 years to Xmas 2020, I was staring down the barrel of a lockdown Xmas so bought a DT03 Racing Fighter to build with my 4 yr old. He enjoyed it to I dug out a TL01 id acquired years ago, put an 80t crawler motor in it, and we've been having fun with them, but the albeit stock, DT03 is getting a bit boring. I can run it flat out in a resonable sized garden , with no real risk. With my boy turning 5 next week, and getting better(ish) at driving the RCs, its only a matter of time til he can drive the DT with the EPA turned up to 100% rather than the 20% that I allow him to drive it with now. That then leaves me without a car, so I think it's time I built something a bit silly.

I don't want to go too mental on the costs, we've got a another baby on the way (not that has any impact on what I can afford, its just not worth the grief if the boss finds out I've spent £500+ on a toy , :D). I'll probably buy the kit in the next month or so, then trickle buy some other parts so she doesn't notice. I'm thinking of the usual mods that I tend to do like turnbuckle steering, sway bars, the sort of cheap things that tighten up handling, but also what would I need to go along with the brushless? Things that stop it ripping itself to bits. I've read about guys putting a slipper clutch in (which I've only had a bit of experience of in nitro cars, and even then I didn't do any fiddling with), as well a ball diff and replacing the rear half shafts with metal front ones. Is there a good page or even thread that lists the Tamiya hop ups that are/were available to give me an idea.

Sorry if its a pile of questions, and I don't expect you to answer answer them all. I don't mind if someone can point me in the direction of a good DF03 build thread or 2 and I can poke about myself. With the DT03 build I just bought and fitted cheapish mods that I liked the look of but probably didn't make much of a difference, but if I'm going to make a quick DF03 I figured I should consult the experts! B)

The next and probably most important question then, would be what colour to paint it, the box art black looks good, but I have got a certain weakness for orange! I just don't know if another orange buggy will be a bit confusing when me and my boy run them together. Thats my DT03 (the little one!) next to the Baja that I also rebuilt last winter. Its only had an hour of running since though, while it is quick and good fun, its just so noisy that its hard to find anywhere to run it! So a near silent DF that can be run anywhere will be great.

 

 

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Thanks, and sorry if it was a bit of a rambling post!

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Just noticed this post has gone into general discussion. I thought I'd put it in All things Electric. Is it possible for a mod to move it there, or anywhere else they feel it needs to be. 

 

Thanks

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I think here works best 

why not a TT02b?

i think you’ll trash the ball diff too quickly with brushless

TT02b has LOADS of tuning parts available, easy to upgrade and you can get metal diffs 

wrt motors - a goolRC or surpass brushless combo for £30 is a bargain 

JJ

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Theres a couple of sets of the loose front diff joints on ebay for sale (uk sellers) If you havent got any yet id get them sooner rather than later if your going with a DF03 otherwise you get stuck with having to get them in a parts bag which is £45

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DF03 drive train isn't the strongest so I wouldn't go for a completely crazy brushless setup in it personally.

If you can wait untill November the new TD4 Super Avante should arrive - it will be more expensive than the DF03, but should hold up better with brushless power.

The new Team Associated RB10 should also be available soon, looks like it will be good value and comes with electrics included: https://www.associatedelectrics.com/teamassociated/cars_and_trucks/RB10/RTR/

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The DF03 needs a few mods to make reliable with brushless power, but is fantastic once done.

Mine ran with a Castle 5700kv combo and 3s, (now 'retired' as a speed run car, 7700kv/3s), which I paid £90 for 2nd hand, and was exactly what you describe , a proper handful to drive and getting on 50mph. It does mean however, one false move, and you WILL break parts.

One of the main things being the rear diff (as you've stated), front diff joints and 3mm tungsten carbide balls (I use schumacher) take care of that (mines running ,yeah racing upgrades, but unlikely to find those now, but fronts in the rear work just as well).

Another is the slipper. With this set to slip, just before the rear diff does, it keeps things from eating themselves.

Once you start getting into decent power levels, the main gear on the slipper becomes a weak point. Its made from the aluminium the stock pinions are made from, and starts to eat itself. I used a hardened helicopter pinion to solve the problem, but such is demand, a UK company is making a new hardened gear, and you just need to press it on.

https://www.rwracing.co.uk/product/tamiya-df-03-main-shaft-gear-6-module-18t-12mm-wide 

How to do the job below-

 

Remember ,the DF03 uses 05 mod gears , and only 05mod pinions will work, you can get spur options, by getting the df03ra gear set, which gives a higher top speed. (But hotter electrics, so only run those on tarmac, and/or with a cooling fan)

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Wish that main gear had been available before I sold mine. Brushless was fun, but I got nervous that I was going trash it and end up with a shelfer.

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1 hour ago, Wooders28 said:

Once you start getting into decent power levels, the main gear on the slipper becomes a weak point. Its made from the aluminium the stock pinions are made from, and starts to eat itself. I used a hardened helicopter pinion to solve the problem, but such is demand, a UK company is making a new hardened gear, and you just need to press it on.

https://www.rwracing.co.uk/product/tamiya-df-03-main-shaft-gear-6-module-18t-12mm-wide 

Love that RW are now selling that as a stock item! 

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2 hours ago, Gruntfuggly said:

Wish that main gear had been available before I sold mine. Brushless was fun, but I got nervous that I was going trash it and end up with a shelfer.

Five-stars made an upgrade shaft , but was becoming difficult to get when I went brushless in mine around 2013. The heli pinion was available then though.

Where there's a will, there's a way 😂

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1 hour ago, Juhunio said:

Love that RW are now selling that as a stock item! 

Aye, thanks for that mate! I think your persistence helper things along 😁

I was thinking of getting a couple of main shafts from RCMart ,when  they where cheap, and making , ready to fit, but ......🤷‍♂️🙄

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7 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

Aye, thanks for that mate! I think your persistence helper things along 😁

I was thinking of getting a couple of main shafts from RCMart ,when  they where cheap, and making , ready to fit, but ......🤷‍♂️🙄

:D

Even at £7 for the main shaft from Tony on ebay (last one folks :ph34r:) and £8 for the steel pinion from RW, it's definitely worth it

Just had a quick look on RC Mart and their parts range for the DF-03 isn't too bad, better than most. I'm always surprised when I see the DF-03 getting another run, or regularly being available to buy, when the parts supply is so sketchy. It must be one of the worst for parts supply for what seems to be an ongoing product line?

Absolutely great buggy if you iron out the creases though :)

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Thank you all for your replies. I haven't been able to read them all properly yet, but I'll go through it all when I get home from work. 

To be honest I'd discounted the Tt02 as I, maybe wrongly?, assumed it wasn't a proper buggy just a jacked up touring car. I did for a time turn my old Tt01 into a rally car, but much more than gravel and it git stuck. But I shall do some reading in to it. 

The Td4 does look nice, but I think may be a bit rich for just a bit of bashing, plus mods itll be knocking on the door of £500+.

 

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I'm going to try fitting a Traxxas slipper to mine, because the Tamiya slipper is out of stock everywhere. Right now, I'm using a 17t brushed motor with front diff joints in the rear and everything else stock with no issues. I've been enjoying the buggy quite a bit even though it's not quite fast enough. It's going to get a 10.5 once I get the slipper situation sorted.

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4 hours ago, Juhunio said:

It must be one of the worst for parts supply for what seems to be an ongoing product line?

The supply chain for ,pretty much everything, is a bit sketchy atm, but can see tamiya drying parts up, to concentrate on the TD4, although with sales of the DF03 good the past year (I'm admin on a DF03 page on Facebook, and there's been plenty more activity the past year) , they may carry on, if there's the demand....🤔

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Why do you wan't a df-03, it is a weak car drivetrain and chassis, you have to do a lot of upgrades to make it strong and reliable with brushless power, to be honest if I where you I look at other brands then tamiya if you like to build a brushless buggy and want to bash it, the tt-02  needs also a lot of upgrades and the plastic diff can't handle a lot of power the need to changed to.

I like tamiya cars but if you want a basher car that can handle a lot of power and you want to bash it, look at other brands it wil save you money and frustration, at first I only bought tamiya cars, but now I have also Losi, traxxas, hpi and hobao and that opened my eyes.

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Sorry for the delayed reply, pesky work and and my nephews 3rd birthday party got in the way yesterday!

To answer a couple of questions, I've got not real reason to specifically want a DF, other than it seemed the natural step up from a DT. A part of the consideration is the cost, its not going to be a main hobby of mine, I'm already spending plenty of money on racing dirt bikes for myself, and model trains for my son, so I have to try and keep spending under control. Like others I also find the building part just as much fun as the driving, so RTR stuff doesn't really interest me. 

The more I'm reading, the less I think I actually need it to do 50+mph. My Nitro Truck I had when I was a kid was supposedly 40+ mph, but as with most IC cars, it took a few seconds for the engine to be at its peak power, so was pretty controllable at slow speed, and didn't get exciting until near max speeds. Even the big buggy in the picture above is a bit underwhelming at lower speeds. I've never had a electric car that does more than mid to late 20mph, and then it was only with stock motors and just longer gearing. So maybe I need to readjust what I actually want/need. With the more instant power delivery of electric, an especially brushless, maybe I want it to be more lively at slower speeds and give up a bit of top speed, because after all top speed is little more than top trumps for the pub. Its hard to judge performance from videos, but I guess what I'm  after is something that I can't just pin the throttle and just steer, but something that is trying to slither about the place and even trying to wheelie. Thats probably more excting than the odd speed run in the corner of an industrial estate.

What would be a mild brushless setup that I could try in a DF that if its not enough could drop in to my DT or even TT01? I'm also undecided on whether to go NIMH or Lipo. I hear Lipo can be punchier, which is probably what I'm looking for, but the worry of charging them and storing them correctly is ever present.

 

Thank you, and sorry the endless questions.

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2 hours ago, GazzaRose said:

but I guess what I'm  after is something that I can't just pin the throttle and just steer, but something that is trying to slither about the place and even trying to wheelie.

Lunchbox

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2 hours ago, GazzaRose said:

 

To answer a couple of questions, I've got not real reason to specifically want a DF, other than it seemed the natural step up from a DT. A part of the consideration is the cost,

Then you do not want a df-03, the car is not that cheap and you have to do a lot of upgrades to the car to make it reliable, so that wil cost you a lot of money.
If you want to build a 4wd tamiya buggy you are better of with some of the dragon cars. like the firedragon, thunderdragon or terra scorcher, or a super hot shot, both of them can handle brushless power and are not as  fragile as a df-03, and you do not have to buy a lot of upgrades for them

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14 hours ago, dannymulder said:

Then you do not want a df-03, the car is not that cheap and you have to do a lot of upgrades to the car to make it reliable, so that wil cost you a lot of money.
If you want to build a 4wd tamiya buggy you are better of with some of the dragon cars. like the firedragon, thunderdragon or terra scorcher, or a super hot shot, both of them can handle brushless power and are not as  fragile as a df-03, and you do not have to buy a lot of upgrades for them

I'm tied now, because i do like the look of the DF, and it will spend sometime hanging on the wall in the garage. The dragon cars you've mentioned, am I right in saying that they're re-res? Again I'd assumed they were more for nostalgia and not necessarily any good, I thought time would have brought progress.... maybe not.  Unfortunately I've got no nostaligic tie to the older Tamiya stuff, other than my old Bush Devil.

I'll have a good look through availablility of parts for all the options, as well the upgrades like the gears listed above, and see whether the decision goes the way of my head or my heart! Bettern (in my eyes) modern looking DF, or older stronger re-res.

 

Thank you all again

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On 9/6/2021 at 5:36 PM, Problemchild said:

I think here works best 

why not a TT02b?

i think you’ll trash the ball diff too quickly with brushless

TT02b has LOADS of tuning parts available, easy to upgrade and you can get metal diffs 

wrt motors - a goolRC or surpass brushless combo for £30 is a bargain 

JJ

Fully agreed brushless will make it quite easy to chewout the stock ball diff's.....  If your going brushless I would strongly recommend going with a locked aluminum diff... Far more durable and will hold up very well in a brushless setup

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17 hours ago, GazzaRose said:

A part of the consideration is the cost,

The Dark Impact will be another £50 - £60 on top of the kit price, to be able to run brushless reliably, and that puts it in the same price category as say, a 2nd hand Schumacher L1....

17 hours ago, GazzaRose said:

What would be a mild brushless setup that I could try in a DF

For mild power , the 9t Skyrc leopard v2 is hard to beat imo. The esc fits in the tight chassis with ease (the Goolrc esc is MASSIVE), the motor has cooling fins, comes with a programme card and they're fairly cheap. It won't be as punchy/quick as an equivalent KV Castle motor, but the cost reflects that.

What controller are you using? 

Most modern systems have 'EPA' which allows you to set the End Point. If I wasn't wanting bonkers power, I just turned it down on the transmitter. (At 50% epa on the throttle, full throttle was half power) 

 

17 hours ago, GazzaRose said:

I'm also undecided on whether to go NIMH or Lipo. I hear Lipo can be punchier, which is probably what I'm looking for, but the worry of charging them and storing them correctly is ever present

Lipo is the way forward, lighter, higher voltage for longer, and way way higher discharge rate (more punch). Once you get used to giving them cuddles, they're OK.

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42 minutes ago, GazzaRose said:

I'll have a good look through availablility of parts for all the options, as well the upgrades like the gears listed above, and see whether the decision goes the way of my head or my heart! Bettern (in my eyes) modern looking DF, or older stronger re-res.

Just as an antidote to the DFDoom, I've had both a 10.5T brushless motor and a Superstock BZ motor (both delivering similar RPM) in my DF03 for about 12 months now and not had any problems based on the key mods that @Wooders28 described above:

  • Use front diff joints (19808059) in the rear; they're one piece metal diff joints and plates (as opposed to the rear metal joints and plastic plates that come with the kit) (£17)
  • Stronger diff balls (tungsten carbide or silicon nitride, I use these ones off eBay) (£6)
  • The steel main gear pinion from RW racing, which you press onto the main gear shaft to replace the kit aluminium pinion using the method described above (£8)
  • Slipper clutch (currently quite hard to find, but seems to be in stock at Wonderland or available to order through Timetunnel etc, might be an end of November thing maybe?) (£TBC)

All the above make it pretty solid. It's quite a fun involving build anyway, and adding / creating those mods adds another level of personalisation, if you're into that kind of thing :)

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50 minutes ago, GazzaRose said:

I'm tied now, because i do like the look of the DF, and it will spend sometime hanging on the wall in the garage. The dragon cars you've mentioned, am I right in saying that they're re-res? Again I'd assumed they were more for nostalgia and not necessarily any good, I thought time would have brought progress.... maybe not.  Unfortunately I've got no nostaligic tie to the older Tamiya stuff, other than my old Bush Devil.

I'll have a good look through availablility of parts for all the options, as well the upgrades like the gears listed above, and see whether the decision goes the way of my head or my heart! Bettern (in my eyes) modern looking DF, or older stronger re-res.

 

Thank you all again

I don't have a DF03 so haven't commented here earlier. There is merit in a rere buggy, some of them are pretty bulletproof and it depends on what you want to do. We run backyard races and they all have different quirks but all can win, except the Lunchbox. Boomerang and Novafox understeer, Monster Beetle is pretty neutral, Super Astute needs a better setup, TT02B can't jump but handle like touring cars, Top Force is brilliant, modern 17.5T race cars need slowing right down.

The rere buggies are proper buggies, decent ride height, strong drivetrain etc and are a really good option 

Best value - buy a secondhand Ae B6 or 4wd racer. They are bulletproofand can handle anything you throw at them.

Most fun - buy the Tamiya, either the DF03 or a rere, or wait for the TD4. You get to build it from new and they will do what you want.

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What about a Blitzer. Truck or beetle. Stick a 13.5t sensored or a Goolrc 4300kv combo in it and it will do all that you ask. Well maybe not 50mph, but mine is a handful to drive pulls wheelies and parts are readily available. Base model is relatively low as well.

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