Help needed to tame a M-05

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 minute ago, Original Jardasius said:

Without grease it will seize and snap it in two

Thanks. Should I stick with AW or use something else then? 

[TurnipJF 9192]

3 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

One question about that CV joint, it came with AW grease, but most will say it is stupid to put that thick grease on the exposed drive train. Should I not grease it up then? 

CVs definitely need lubrication, but personally I prefer a dry lube such as that sold for bicycle chains, as this doesn't attract dust and dirt which turn into grinding paste if you use a sticky grease.

[Willy iine 18805]

7 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

One question about that CV joint, it came with AW grease, but most will say it is stupid to put that thick grease on the exposed drive train. Should I not grease it up then? 

I most definitely use the AW grease on ALL my CV joints.  No issue on my cars.  Honestly that level of binding is quite significant.  I would stop running the car and just rebuild it before potentially  causing further damage.  

Dry lube mentioned by @TurnipJF is also a good suggestion.  I use AW grease (to keep the lube in place), but it just needs to be lubed.

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 minute ago, Willy iine said:

I most definitely use the AW grease on ALL my CV joints.  No issue on my cars.  Honestly that level of binding is quite significant.  I would stop running the car and just rebuild it before potentially  causing further damage.  

Oh no, I will definitely not run this, until I sorted this out. It is impossible to drive as it is now. 

[Original Jardasius 97]

5 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

Thanks. Should I stick with AW or use something else then? 

Personally I use a graphite grease for all exposed joints especially CV's  It is farless sticky and does not gumup hardly at all

[alvinlwh 5895]

OK, I think diff problems can be ruled out. This update will be a split post because of 2 videos. 

I had taken the front uprights off and cleaning up the drivetrain parts in case it was dirt that was jamming something up. No improvements. 

Then I proceed to take the chassis apart to get at the diff. Cleaned out most of the grease with a kitchen towel (not a total clean) and so it so be fairly loose now? 

Also, when taking the chassis apart, I noticed that I actually forgot to put the screws that hold the front halves together on! The 4 screws in step 6! What an embarrassing rookie error! Put everything back together carefully this time, the same right wheel still binds. In all honesty, I do not think not having those screws in caused the problems in the first place. 

Remember what @djmcnzsaid, I swap all the drivetrain left and right and true enough, the left wheel binds now! Badly!

In my first video, the binding wheel do rotate sometimes, but now, unless I stop the rotating wheel, it will not turn at all! 

Thinking it is some bad bearings, I swap them out and no improvements. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

Split post so that I can post the second video. 

As can be seen, the "spin down" is almost instant on the binding wheel, like it has brake. It take like a second for the free (now right) wheel to stop. 

Thinking that wheel itself was rubbing on the face of uprights, I swapped in a 7mm hex instead (that the video) and no improvements. 

Then I took off the wheels and just run it and this time, both axels runs and stop at the same time. 

Then I swap the wheels only across and no improvements. 

Finally, I found the problem, it is something to do with tightening the wheel nut, when I tighten the nut down correctly, it binds. If I do not tighten it, just left it slightly loose, it is fine. But for obvious reasons, it cannot be left loose.

So any suggestions on what really is binding?

I have to stop here as it is nearly 3am and I need to go to sleep now. Tomorrow I will be swapping in the stock dogbones and axles for a try but any suggestions will be very much appreciated. 

[Original Jardasius 97]

The back side of  the plastic hex key the side with the pin cutout on it shave a smidge off the  back of it with a piece of sandpaper or an emery board place it backon and try it again... if said does not work add a small diff shim over the axle then slide the pin thru the axle then add hex and tighten it and see what happens

[El Gecko 1344]

1 hour ago, alvinlwh said:

Finally, I found the problem, it is something to do with tightening the wheel nut, when I tighten the nut down correctly, it binds. If I do not tighten it, just left it slightly loose, it is fine. But for obvious reasons, it cannot be left loose.

So any suggestions on what really is binding?

I have to stop here as it is nearly 3am and I need to go to sleep now. Tomorrow I will be swapping in the stock dogbones and axles for a try but any suggestions will be very much appreciated. 

Ah, now we're getting somewhere!

- make sure the bearings are fully seated in the axle carrier
- check for a bent axle pin
- it's possible that one of the wheel hexes has a deeper cutout for the axle pin than the others on the car. Try changing wheel hexes around or try a spare, and also play around with spacers until the axle spins freely in the carrier with the wheel on tight (how it's supposed to be)

[djmcnz 754]

A sound process of elimination typically bears fruit, good work.

Since the 7mmm hex didn't fix it then it's not the wheel, or wheel/hex interface, it's most likely to be the hex to hub interface or something contributing to that interface. If you have some clamp type hexes, perhaps on a different vehicle, you can do them up tight with no wheels and retest with a clear line of sight.

[alvinlwh 5895]

6 hours ago, Original Jardasius said:

The back side of  the plastic hex key the side with the pin cutout on it shave a smidge off the  back of it with a piece of sandpaper or an emery board place it backon and try it again... if said does not work add a small diff shim over the axle then slide the pin thru the axle then add hex and tighten it and see what happens

I had never used the plastic hex key (nut?), had always been AM aluminium ones. 5mm and 7mm (video) and both has the same effects. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

5 hours ago, El Gecko said:

- make sure the bearings are fully seated in the axle carrier

This is unlikely as I had taking the thing apart and put it together at least a dozen times, surely I would have gotten it right at least once (I hope!). 

5 hours ago, El Gecko said:

- check for a bent axle pin

This is possible but I hope not as these are the rather expensive AM set. Either way I will be installing the stock items to test later on today (just woke up). 

EDIT: or do you mean the little pins behind the hex? Changed that too with new spares I have. 

5 hours ago, El Gecko said:

- it's possible that one of the wheel hexes has a deeper cutout for the axle pin than the others on the car. Try changing wheel hexes around or try a spare, and also play around with spacers until the axle spins freely in the carrier with the wheel on tight (how it's supposed to be)

Done that by changing from 5mm to 7mm sets. Where do I put the spacers exactly? 

[alvinlwh 5895]

2 hours ago, djmcnz said:

Since the 7mmm hex didn't fix it then it's not the wheel, or wheel/hex interface, it's most likely to be the hex to hub interface or something contributing to that interface. If you have some clamp type hexes, perhaps on a different vehicle, you can do them up tight with no wheels and retest with a clear line of sight.

These are the clamp type hex and they actually are part of sets that are half used on other vehicles. 

Your last suggestion however... I could perhaps cut away a wheel to leave only the centre axle hex area and mount it? 🤔

I will try the stock items first before hacking anything up... 

[djmcnz 754]

9 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

These are the clamp type hex and they actually are part of sets that are half used on other vehicles. 

Your last suggestion however... I could perhaps cut away a wheel to leave only the centre axle hex area and mount it? 🤔

I will try the stock items first before hacking anything up... 

Yes, don't cut up any wheels! I should have noticed they were clamp type, sorry, forget my idea.

I'm starting to think that not screwing the chassis together properly has allowed one of the internal (1150) bearings or even the diff to dislodge causing an internal misalignment, possibly exacerbated by tightening up the wheel (which draws the UK out further)... otherwise pretty stumped. When I'm stumped I normally tear it down.

[alvinlwh 5895]

38 minutes ago, djmcnz said:

Yes, don't cut up any wheels! I should have noticed they were clamp type, sorry, forget my idea.

I'm starting to think that not screwing the chassis together properly has allowed one of the internal (1150) bearings or even the diff to dislodge causing an internal misalignment, possibly exacerbated by tightening up the wheel (which draws the UK out further)... otherwise pretty stumped. When I'm stumped I normally tear it down.

Don't be too worried about me cutting up wheels, I have an "exploded" wheel due to me putting it on 12mm (length not hex) extension and it broke (another story for another day). 

As I had already tore it down yesterday, and the problem actually swap sides externally, I think I will build the stock external bits like uprights, drivetrain, etc to check first. Only thing is I hope I did not bin the plastic 1280 (I think) bearings as the metal uprights actually uses a different size. 

Will report back further once that is done and tested. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

Oh I still have the original 1150s bought as the set for the chassis, so now I am going to get on with building the stock uprights. 

Will report back on the results. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

OK, for once, the first part I tried swapping turns out to be the one causing the problem, the 54177 aluminium front uprights, which also happens to be the most expensive part I have in this car. 😣

 

Will be taking it out for a proper test later, weather permitting and fingers crossed that it will be all OK now and I can enjoy the legionary handling of the M-05.

One minor point though, the stock uprights feels really "tight" with the 53597 universal shafts, kind of like they are being "pushed outwards" from the F1 (C arms?) part compared to the aluminium uprights. The screw holes on the upright don't line up perfectly without using a bit of force to push it inwards. Anyone running this combo that can tell me if this is normal?

Also, the front uprights are really tight in the same F1 part, seems to steer OK with the servo, but definitely feels tighter when turning by hand. This is even without the screws (kingpins?) in so it is not really a case of screws being forced sightly off causing binding. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

After taking it out for a quick test drive, the problem seems to be solved further tests will be needed as the surface I tested on was a rough road, slightly damp. At least it is not soaking wet. 

[SupraChrgd82 1425]

Interesting….the problem was caused by faulty design of aftermarket parts. I shall add this to the mental troubleshooting checklist.

Hope to see pics your completed car running hot laps soon!

[alvinlwh 5895]

24 minutes ago, SupraChrgd82 said:

Interesting….the problem was caused by faulty design of aftermarket parts. I shall add this to the mental troubleshooting checklist.

Hope to see pics your completed car running hot laps soon!

Now that you mentioned it, something don't seem right... I swapped the drivetrain over and the problem swapped side... BUT the uprights cannot be swapped! Yet when I put in the stock ones, the problem went away. Now I have to investigate if it was in fact the universals that are the real problem. 

[alvinlwh 5895]

Even though I declared I "found the problem" and "fixed" it a few hours ago, something  @SuperChamp82said triggered a thought about what @djmcnzsaid, about swapping all the parts that I can and see if the problem changed side. Well, I did that and the problem did and so the first thing I changed to try and fix the problem IS ONE THAT CANNOT CHANGE SIDES! The uprights are sided, so the only thing that could be causing the problem is the universals!

So I slap the aluminium uprights back in, with the stock dogbones and axles. 

I will let the video do the talking. Compare to the video posted 9 hours before this post, pay particular attention to the "wind down" (time for wheels to stop from a full throttle). 

I expect to see an increase in top speed to when I can finally take it out for a hot drive. 

I should have know that the universals are not right when I said this. 

9 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

One minor point though, the stock uprights feels really "tight" with the 53597 universal shafts, kind of like they are being "pushed outwards" from the F1 (C arms?) part compared to the aluminium uprights. The screw holes on the upright don't line up perfectly without using a bit of force to push it inwards. Anyone running this combo that can tell me if this is normal?

Also, the front uprights are really tight in the same F1 part, seems to steer OK with the servo, but definitely feels tighter when turning by hand. This is even without the screws (kingpins?) in so it is not really a case of screws being forced sightly off causing binding. 

The 53597 are labelled as M03 parts, are they not suitable for the M05? 

[InsaneJim69 1584]

On the diff outputs are there rubber o rings inside the cups? If so try taking them out and use the Universal's. It should give 1-2mm or so more room to play with. If not, then they won't be compatable by the sounds of things.

Good that you have found the issue though.

James.

[alvinlwh 5895]

17 minutes ago, InsaneJim69 said:

On the diff outputs are there rubber o rings inside the cups? If so try taking them out and use the Universal's. It should give 1-2mm or so more room to play with. If not, then they won't be compatable by the sounds of things.

Good that you have found the issue though.

James.

You mean BA24? Yes, they are in as per the stock instructions as they are the stock parts. Do you mean they are not needed with the universal set? 

[InsaneJim69 1584]

Try taking the o ring out of the side that binds. A wee bit of AW grease on that universal end should limit any wear. In some of the higher end Tamiya kits don't have o rings in the drive cups but small foam inserts instead. 

James.

[alvinlwh 5895]

1 minute ago, InsaneJim69 said:

Try taking the o ring out of the side that binds. A wee bit of AW grease on that universal end should limit any wear. In some of the higher end Tamiya kits don't have o rings in the drive cups but small foam inserts instead. 

James.

Cheers, will try that one instead. Perhaps I still can use all the hop up bits after all.