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EastWolfDownUnder

Motor & ESC combo suggestions for Lunch Box & Egress

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Hi All,

I have just received a Lunch Box and should receive ReRe Egress next week for lockdown projects.

Could I please get some friendly advice on the below and experiences if any? :D I am slightly concerned that these kits may suffer if too much power is put through them. I am used to running 2S offroad AE 6.2 & 74.1 mod class buggies @ 10.5 and 8.5t, but I don't 100% understand why you can't run that spec in a Tamiya

Under the advice of some friends I have narrowed down 2 systems but not sure which one should go in which car.

Both RC's will be for gentle bashing only on smooth surfaces (especially the Egress) and run on 2s Lipo power.

At hand I have

(A) Hobbywing XeRun 120A ESC + 17.5 brushless Surpass motor

And a friend suggested that I get a simple (easy to get in my country during lockdown):

(B) Hobbywing Quicrun WP-1060 + 23T Tamiya RZ motor. [brushed system]

 

I had a black edition LBox a few years ago and ran it stock, and the speed was a little light for me so I'd be keen on getting it a little speedier. Hope you can shed some thoughts on above suitability for each of my builds. I have to admit from a aesthetic point of view, option (B) would look nicer in the Egress with less wires to manage, plus a genuine Tamiya motor too. It would make more sense for the Egress to be the faster of the two?

 

 

20210911_145817.jpg

20210910_202948.jpg

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First post, welcome. From downunder, NZ or Aus? If NZ, where do you race?

I race an Ae B6D and HB D418 in 17.5T blinky class, dirt offroad. I have a lunchbox too and just run it in the backyard. For context, the race cars are too fast for my backyard but controllable. I turn them down to 60%-70% if any of my mates run them. The lunchbox runs stock and is fine in the small space, the handling is awful so i don't think it needs to be faster.

I have that Super Stock combo in a Super Astute and Top Force and it runs well. Not as fast as the HB but plenty fast in the relatively small space. Its actually a really nice speed on 2s and well suited to those buggies. I assume the Egress will perform similarly to the Egress.

What Surpass motor do you have and what FDR can you achieve in the Egress? I run the V4S and V5R motors and they are fast when geared right (around 5.5 FDR in my HB) with a fan to keep temps under control. If you can gear correctly I'd run that in the Egress. You won't get the right gearing in the LB to make use of a 17.5T, you'd probably need an 8.5T or something to match the FDR and that would be too much. In saying that i suspect the Egress gearing would suit the Super stock too, or an 8.5T...

Not much help really sorry!

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1 hour ago, EastWolfDownUnder said:

Hi All,

I have just received a Lunch Box and should receive ReRe Egress next week for lockdown projects.

Could I please get some friendly advice on the below and experiences if any? :D I am slightly concerned that these kits may suffer if too much power is put through them. I am used to running 2S offroad AE 6.2 & 74.1 mod class buggies @ 10.5 and 8.5t, but I don't 100% understand why you can't run that spec in a Tamiya

Under the advice of some friends I have narrowed down 2 systems but not sure which one should go in which car.

Both RC's will be for gentle bashing only on smooth surfaces (especially the Egress) and run on 2s Lipo power.

At hand I have

(A) Hobbywing XeRun 120A ESC + 17.5 brushless Surpass motor

And a friend suggested that I get a simple (easy to get in my country during lockdown):

(B) Hobbywing Quicrun WP-1060 + 23T Tamiya RZ motor. [brushed system]

 

I had a black edition LBox a few years ago and ran it stock, and the speed was a little light for me so I'd be keen on getting it a little speedier. Hope you can shed some thoughts on above suitability for each of my builds. I have to admit from a aesthetic point of view, option (B) would look nicer in the Egress with less wires to manage, plus a genuine Tamiya motor too. It would make more sense for the Egress to be the faster of the two?

 

 

20210911_145817.jpg

20210910_202948.jpg

My personal opinion is yes to make the egress the quicker of the too it was designed on more of a racing tub platform then a bouncin around mini basher like the lunchbox is built from. SOOO IMO -option 1- Lunchbox  option 2- Egress

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32 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

First post, welcome. From downunder, NZ or Aus? If NZ, where do you race?

I race an Ae B6D and HB D418 in 17.5T blinky class, dirt offroad. I have a lunchbox too and just run it in the backyard. For context, the race cars are too fast for my backyard but controllable. I turn them down to 60%-70% if any of my mates run them. The lunchbox runs stock and is fine in the small space, the handling is awful so i don't think it needs to be faster.

I have that Super Stock combo in a Super Astute and Top Force and it runs well. Not as fast as the HB but plenty fast in the relatively small space. Its actually a really nice speed on 2s and well suited to those buggies. I assume the Egress will perform similarly to the Egress.

What Surpass motor do you have and what FDR can you achieve in the Egress? I run the V4S and V5R motors and they are fast when geared right (around 5.5 FDR in my HB) with a fan to keep temps under control. If you can gear correctly I'd run that in the Egress. You won't get the right gearing in the LB to make use of a 17.5T, you'd probably need an 8.5T or something to match the FDR and that would be too much. In saying that i suspect the Egress gearing would suit the Super stock too, or an 8.5T...

Not much help really sorry!

Hi Jonathan,

I'm in Auckland NZ and race at AIRCCC Henderson - where are you based? They run a Vintage (pre '95) class which is dominated by Kyosho and limited to Silver Can motors (no brushless). I just run mod for 2wd and 4wd as I mentioned for around a year. I kinda failed to mention in my original post that I don't actually know which of the 2 above options is faster (and therefore my pick for the Egress) as Brushless isn't always faster I gather. 

Yes, this is my first post, and actually brought here because of all the vintage enthusiasts that compete in  the Vintage class. Egress and Lunch Box were my dream toys but sadly never had them as a kid.  I've ordered Schumacher off-road dish wheels to try and achieve the look in this photo.

IMG-20210819-WA0021.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Original Jardasius said:

My personal opinion is yes to make the egress the quicker of the too it was designed on more of a racing tub platform then a bouncin around mini basher like the lunchbox is built from. SOOO IMO -option 1- Lunchbox  option 2- Egress

Thanks for your reply: Lunch Box: Option 1 = the brushless system and Egress the Brushed system with RZ motor?

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35 minutes ago, EastWolfDownUnder said:

Hi Jonathan,

I'm in Auckland NZ and race at AIRCCC Henderson - where are you based? They run a Vintage (pre '95) class which is dominated by Kyosho and limited to Silver Can motors (no brushless). I just run mod for 2wd and 4wd as I mentioned for around a year. I kinda failed to mention in my original post that I don't actually know which of the 2 above options is faster (and therefore my pick for the Egress) as Brushless isn't always faster I gather. 

Yes, this is my first post, and actually brought here because of all the vintage enthusiasts that compete in  the Vintage class. Egress and Lunch Box were my dream toys but sadly never had them as a kid.  I've ordered Schumacher off-road dish wheels to try and achieve the look in this photo.

IMG-20210819-WA0021.jpg

I'm in Auckland too. I have never been to AIRCCC but know a lot of the guys there. I run at Counties and NHRCC and there is a lot of crossover between the clubs. I've been tempted to take the Top Force along for the vintage class, but having converted 2 secondhand cars I bought from carpet to dirt its too much effort to run my others there as its pretty much a full stripdown and rebuild. My son races too so we have 2wd and 4wd buggies, TC, F1 and he also has a TT02 for onroad, and then a nitro buggy and he has an ebuggy for 8th scale racing so another set of cars for AIRCCC is a bridge too far.

A good 17.5T brushless is faster than a Super Stock motor but only if you can gear it right, they're pretty slow and disappointing otherwise. That ESC can probably have some turbo and boost dialed in? That will help too. The Super Stock motors are great performers its just old tech now. 

I suspect the Egress will be like the Top Force, limited gearing when standard and really suited for a much lower turn motor. I can gear my TF for a 17.5T, just, but only with the TA02 high speed gearset, so if there aren't smaller spur options for the Egress you're probably out of luck

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I do not have any experience in BL at the moment but just want to say, I plugged a 2S into my LB with a ST black can and it overturns everytime I turn. Yes, I had seen people putting crazy fast motors in that thing and it can go, but it is not really suitable for too much speed if you do not want to put it back on its wheels all the time. 

Just my 2¢.

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26 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I do not have any experience in BL at the moment but just want to say, I plugged a 2S into my LB with a ST black can and it overturns everytime I turn. Yes, I had seen people putting crazy fast motors in that thing and it can go, but it is not really suitable for too much speed if you do not want to put it back on its wheels all the time. 

Just my 2¢.

I'm going to concur here. I have a lunchbox with a sport tuned running NiMH and I can barely point it in the right direction at full speed. Running more power through it would probably keep it on its roof more often than its wheels.

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14 hours ago, DeadMeat666 said:

I'm going to concur here. I have a lunchbox with a sport tuned running NiMH and I can barely point it in the right direction at full speed. Running more power through it would probably keep it on its roof more often than its wheels.

Thanks, so these tuned motors are much better than the systems that come in the box?

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2 hours ago, EastWolfDownUnder said:

Thanks, so these tuned motors are much better than the systems that come in the box?

They are quicker than a silvercan but by no means crazy fast. The Super Stock you have is much faster. The torque tuned comes as standard in many kits now too, and clubs use them as spec motors for this reason. 

I think the issue is a Lunchbox doesn't handle much power at all and a sport tuned is a step up from a silvercan so it becomes a handful. You'd probably get the same bump in performance by switching from NiMH to lipo as you would from silvercan to sport tuned. The old ones had black cans too so they did look better and thats worth 2 secs a lap...

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17 minutes ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

They are quicker than a silvercan but by no means crazy fast. The Super Stock you have is much faster. The torque tuned comes as standard in many kits now too, and clubs use them as spec motors for this reason. 

I think the issue is a Lunchbox doesn't handle much power at all and a sport tuned is a step up from a silvercan so it becomes a handful. You'd probably get the same bump in performance by switching from NiMH to lipo as you would from silvercan to sport tuned. The old ones had black cans too so they did look better and thats worth 2 secs a lap...

I never ran my old blackie LBox on Nimh... I am fine with the stock one on Lipo power, but keen on a little more speed.

I am so confused about speed between the 2 above choices I have.

PS:  I have not yet bought the Tamiya RZ motor... but they're easy to get in NZ, even in lockdown I'd say. I have decided to build the LBox first, and then Egress can follow.

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11 hours ago, EastWolfDownUnder said:

I never ran my old blackie LBox on Nimh... I am fine with the stock one on Lipo power, but keen on a little more speed.

I am so confused about speed between the 2 above choices I have.

PS:  I have not yet bought the Tamiya RZ motor... but they're easy to get in NZ, even in lockdown I'd say. I have decided to build the LBox first, and then Egress can follow.

To compare,

RS-540 aka silver can, 27t: RPM 12500, 200g/cm

Torque Tuned, 25t: 16000, 305

Sports Tuned, 23t: 18300, 350

RZ, 23t: 27500, 500

Source: https://tamiyabase.com/parts/motors

Since the LB only normally has 1 gearing choice, the numbers do scale and translate to speed. As you can see, you will probably more than double the speed with a RZ. 

I currently run NiMHs with my ST but if I am to go lipos, I will probably use a Lightly Tuned 28t, 16300, 565 or a Dirt Tuned 27t, 17000, 380. The 0.2v extra will boost the numbers as they are listed for 7.2v not 7.4.

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On 9/14/2021 at 6:50 AM, alvinlwh said:

To compare,

RS-540 aka silver can, 27t: RPM 12500, 200g/cm

Torque Tuned, 25t: 16000, 305

Sports Tuned, 23t: 18300, 350

RZ, 23t: 27500, 500

Source: https://tamiyabase.com/parts/motors

Since the LB only normally has 1 gearing choice, the numbers do scale and translate to speed. As you can see, you will probably more than double the speed with a RZ. 

 

Hey thanks for this post. Very helpful.... I love numbers. I'd love to understand what 17.5T brushless translates to. I am thinking (as someone above suggested) to run 17.5T brushless in the Lunchbox and have a clean RZ in the Egress. Lbox will be first, and not in a great rush...... I will try to document before and after speeds.

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2 minutes ago, EastWolfDownUnder said:

I'd love to understand what 17.5T brushless translates to.

Don't....even....go...there....!!!

You will open up a huge can of worms with answers about timing, programing, etc and etc... If you do a search, you will find various flame wars in many forums with newbies asking this very question. 

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On 9/16/2021 at 1:10 AM, EastWolfDownUnder said:

Hey thanks for this post. Very helpful.... I love numbers. I'd love to understand what 17.5T brushless translates to. I am thinking (as someone above suggested) to run 17.5T brushless in the Lunchbox and have a clean RZ in the Egress. Lbox will be first, and not in a great rush...... I will try to document before and after speeds.

A good 17.5T brushless will be around 3200kv with proper timing, and a ton of torque. Kv numbers are often advertised at 0 deg timing so will be 2200 in an ad, but then you adjust the timing and get a lot more kv. The numbers above are probably at 7.2v, so 3200 x 7.2 is only 23,000 but because of the torque and can push a much higher gear and give a far higher top speed. The Super Stock needs much lower gearing to reach max rpm so will be slower overall.

The kv is misleading though, as some may have lower rpm but higher torque or the other way around, so laptimes or speed runs are the best measure. I ran an Orca Blitreme and it was fast, but when switching to the Surpass V4S it was slower until I went up 3 pinions and made use of the torque and the Surpass was faster.

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I used a gool rc 9T combo, I guess that one is rated at 5200kv or 4730 not sure.

but with a 4000mAh Zippy 3s Lipo in the lunchbox battery compartment.

plenty of power and endurance

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