The 380 motor's place in Tamiya history

[Saito2 7303]

Mention the 380 motor (original brushed) and many older Tamiya folks will often think of the Grasshopper or a beginners car in general, then followed by thoughts of replacing it with a 540 motor of some sort. The Grasshopper's place in the Tamiya lineup was indeed that of the entry level offering and the 380 motor no doubt yielded a more controllable vehicle in the hands of the beginner but perhaps that wasn't always the case. 

The earliest dedicated off-roaders (apart from the "models in motion" "suitable for radio control" efforts like the XR311 and Cheetah) from Tamiya were the heavy SRBs. These diecast beast no doubt could use the power and torque afforded by the 540. When lighter, mainly plastic buggies like the Holiday Buggy and Sand Rover were introduced, the 380 motor was the motor of choice included. Was this because they were cheaper, and thus beginner buggies? Perhaps. The question becomes a bit more muddied with the debut of the ORV chassis vehicles which supplanted the old SRBs. The first two in this lineup were the Brat and the Lancia Rally. Were both these to be considered beginner vehicles in Tamiya's eye's as well or did Tamiya deem a less powerful motor may have been all that was needed to power this far lighter, new design, ORV chassis? After all, it wasn't until the 3rd and definitely competition oriented offering on the ORV chassis, the Frog, that it saw 540 power, and even then it came with additions like a differential and rear oil filled shocks.

Tamiya didn't portray the 380 as a throw-away beginners-only motor in the guidebooks either. Sure, they were happy to point out a 540 would be the obvious upgrade, but they also pointed out areas where the 380 might be advantageous. They cited endurance racing, in which the 380's more controllable nature would lead to less stress in a long race as well as longer battery life. Even on tight, more technical tracks, the 380 was mentioned as being of possible benefit. Food for thought about this often overlooked little powerplant that got many of us started in the world of RC.

 

[Willy iine 18826]

When I first got my Brat the 380 was plenty fast for me.   And I loved the long run time because all I had back then were 1200mAh hump-packs.  It could run 20-25min on a single charge.  

My TA05 M-Four came with a 380 or something where I replaced mine with BL.   I think that chassis was meant for at-home driving in slow speed, high traction 4WD, short wheel base..?  It's a weird platform, but fun to own.   The motor would get scorching hot so that was the main reason why I switched to brushless.

[Alwb68 125]

Let’s face it if all you had was a trickle charger, so that meant charging your battery over night, then you wanted maximum driving time and that’s what the 380 motor gave you.

It was great to get you started, I’m guessing many of us, of a certain age started with a toy grade rc car. So a 380 motor was a vast improvement.

 

[alvinlwh 7022]

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[Busdriver 6281]

I went from an SRB to a Brat and I have to say I preferred the Brat with its 380 as yes you got longer run times but also it was lighter and more nimble. Sometimes less is more as they say!!!

[87lc2 2833]

Funny you post this, I literally just put the original 380 motor back in my Grasshopper a few weeks back.  I have been using my little buggies a bit more recently and noticed on loose dirt that the 540 was too much for the stock Grasshopper paddle tires so went back to the 380 and it's much more manageable, feels like it goes with the car better.  Of course I could have just upgraded to spike tires, but I think the paddles are such an important part of the original GH looks I wanted to keep them on there.  Happy I went with the motor swap.  

[El Gecko 1432]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:11 AM, Busdriver said:

I went from an SRB to a Brat and I have to say I preferred the Brat with its 380 as yes you got longer run times but also it was lighter and more nimble. Sometimes less is more as they say!!!

The Brat is so good with a 380! I switched mine from 380 to 540, then went right back to the 380. It's perfect for the heavy hardbody.

 

17 hours ago, 87lc2 said:

Funny you post this, I literally just put the original 380 motor back in my Grasshopper a few weeks back.  I have been using my little buggies a bit more recently and noticed on loose dirt that the 540 was too much for the stock Grasshopper paddle tires so went back to the 380 and it's much more manageable, feels like it goes with the car better.  Of course I could have just upgraded to spike tires, but I think the paddles are such an important part of the original GH looks I wanted to keep them on there.  Happy I went with the motor swap.  

There have been some impressive Postal Racing results with a 380-powered Grasshopper--there is something to be said for consistency!

[Toolmaker72 511]

I’ve just started to use a brushless version of a 380 motor.  Also using a 10 tooth pinion.  As per the original with longer run times but now a turn of speed also.  A small 2200mah 3s battery lasts 20mins.

im part way through a monster beetle build with a brushless 380 motor.  I managed to find a relatively low revving motor to match the old technigold lol but looking forward to eventually running it with just a regular 7.4v battery 😊

[SuperChamp82 745]

Interesting thread @Saito2

The 380S started life in the 58002 Porsche 935 with a white end bell and reversible (15/19) pinion - which was about the most those old chassis could sensibly take despite a 540 hop up at the time 

There was also a Japanese aftermarket dual 360 / 380 vintage upgrade - plus a dual 540 version for the truly insane !

Later vintage models got a black end bell / fixed pinion  

Its a lovely driving experience imo - esp on light / simple cars 👍

[mongoose1983 3357]

Am I wrong or all of the 380-powered cars had no differential?

I remember seeing one interesting video on youtube of a F-350 with a 380 motor. The thing was no wimpy at all! Too bad they removed the video. I might be able to locate my copy of it somewhere in the external drive but that might take me some time.

[Tamiyastef 2528]

The Grasshopper has a differential and a 380 motor (and was the cheapest of the Tamiya off road cars available in 1984) which made me choose it because I wanted the longer run times. I thought the Lancia and Brat also had a differential but I've read here on the forum they didn't. Learning all the time  I once put a 540 in it but changed it back to the 380 after one battery, it was just to much to handle. I leave it up to you whether it was too much for the car or for my driving skills 

[El Gecko 1432]

26 minutes ago, Tamiyastef said:

I thought the Lancia and Brat also had a differential but I've read here on the forum they didn't.

I don't know for sure about the Lancia, but I can say with certainty that my vintage Brat has NO diff whatsoever. It's just a single large gear with a metal plug in the center that looks like a nut--I'm assuming to give the splines on the diff yokes a more solid interface than if they just fit right into the plastic gear. The diff yokes/drive cups are also solid compared to the hollow diff version with a hole down the center for the alignment pin. I'll take some pics the next time it's all apart but the spur gear is different too IIRC.

[Saito2 7303]

55 minutes ago, El Gecko said:

I don't know for sure about the Lancia, but I can say with certainty that my vintage Brat has NO diff whatsoever.

The Lancia has no diff like the Brat. The Frog was the first ORV chassis vehicle to receive a diff.

[DocIllinois 1]

I retrofitted a 380 to the first Tamiya I ever owed, a Monster Beetle.

Sure, the car wasn't exactly rocketing off the jumps any more but run time increased by nearly 10 minutes.

That 10 minutes was a whopping amount of extra time and fun, considering the mAh of a battery back then topped out at 1200.  

[Webphut 11]

I researched swapping the 540 in place of the 380. From what I have gathered, the weight alone sometimes cancels out any benefit depending on the the model. In my case, the Toyota Tom with the revised single deck chassis. Some of you may have seen my build of the Toyota Tom 1/12 pan car on another channel here on Tamiya club. I was thinking of doing the 540 or even a brushless setup. After some research, I found that, well what I interpreted anyway, is that the car is faster/quicker with the 380 than the 540. I know the brushless would be quicker and probably much faster, but I am a newbie in the rc car model market as far as putting together a nice quality kit versus when I was a teen and I just gripped it and ripped it together so I could bash it as fast as possible. Now on the other hand, put the 540 and or the brushless setup in the hands of an experienced driver and I am almost positive the setup will be a winning combo.

 

[87lc2 2833]

1 hour ago, Webphut said:

I researched swapping the 540 in place of the 380. From what I have gathered, the weight alone sometimes cancels out any benefit depending on the the model. In my case, the Toyota Tom with the revised single deck chassis. Some of you may have seen my build of the Toyota Tom 1/12 pan car on another channel here on Tamiya club. I was thinking of doing the 540 or even a brushless setup. After some research, I found that, well what I interpreted anyway, is that the car is faster/quicker with the 380 than the 540. I know the brushless would be quicker and probably much faster, but I am a newbie in the rc car model market as far as putting together a nice quality kit versus when I was a teen and I just gripped it and ripped it together so I could bash it as fast as possible. Now on the other hand, put the 540 and or the brushless setup in the hands of an experienced driver and I am almost positive the setup will be a winning combo.

 

I can't see any situation where the extra weight of the 540 vs 380 would overcome the huge power/torque difference, but I'm no expert.  Yes, in a small 1/12 pan car the extra weight of the 540 would be undesireable and would probably throw off the balance of the car if it was designed for a 380, but the 540 would be much more powerful in any situation.  

[Toolmaker72 511]

3 hours ago, Webphut said:

I researched swapping the 540 in place of the 380. From what I have gathered, the weight alone sometimes cancels out any benefit depending on the the model. In my case, the Toyota Tom with the revised single deck chassis. Some of you may have seen my build of the Toyota Tom 1/12 pan car on another channel here on Tamiya club. I was thinking of doing the 540 or even a brushless setup. After some research, I found that, well what I interpreted anyway, is that the car is faster/quicker with the 380 than the 540. I know the brushless would be quicker and probably much faster, but I am a newbie in the rc car model market as far as putting together a nice quality kit versus when I was a teen and I just gripped it and ripped it together so I could bash it as fast as possible. Now on the other hand, put the 540 and or the brushless setup in the hands of an experienced driver and I am almost positive the setup will be a winning combo.

 

A small brushless motor that matches the physical size of a brushed 380 is what you need.  A 2845 or 2840 brushless 2800kv will give about 19,000 rpm with 7.4v or use a 6v battery and that gives 16,000rpm.  It’s like having brushed 540 torque/power but in a 380 sized motor with long run times.  The brushless speed control is also smaller with the above motors as you are not pulling massive amps from the battery.  It’s quite impressive and wonder why Tamiya don’t fit brushless 2845 motors as standard kit.  

[Willy iine 18826]

I run a S2838 (2800kv) motor in my M-Four which also replaced the 380.   It's a tiny little thing, but packs a lot of power.  

[Dakratfink 1020]

I can’t find the video now , but someone had a backyard course and they turned quicker lap times around their little circuit with 380 powered Grasshopper than a 540 upgraded one. The Hopper chassis couldn’t put the power down out of the turns . And it cost the drive a couple tenths of a second per lap. 

[vintagebackyardrc 136]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:19 AM, Dakratfink said:

I can’t find the video now , but someone had a backyard course and they turned quicker lap times around their little circuit with 380 powered Grasshopper than a 540 upgraded one. The Hopper chassis couldn’t put the power down out of the turns . And it cost the drive a couple tenths of a second per lap. 

That may have been my Hornet time attack series video. So the Hopper was actually faster average over all the laps aside from the "money lap" from the Hornet. I just could not get the power down on the Hornet. Also the weight of the 540 is a big deal as it tweaks the car in the air. It's even worse on a hornet because the pivoting gearbox is able to tweak itself mid flight as the force and weight unloads it. I am planning on sticking a 380 in a Hornet and having a go for a quick video. Should make for good content.

Not trying to spam here but if you want to see the videos they are on my YouTube channel. 

https://www.youtube.com/c/VINTAGEBACKYARDRC

 

[Dakratfink 1020]

1 hour ago, vintagebackyardrc said:

That may have been my Hornet time attack series video. So the Hopper was actually faster average over all the laps aside from the "money lap" from the Hornet. I just could not get the power down on the Hornet. Also the weight of the 540 is a big deal as it tweaks the car in the air. It's even worse on a hornet because the pivoting gearbox is able to tweak itself mid flight as the force and weight unloads it. I am planning on sticking a 380 in a Hornet and having a go for a quick video. Should make for good content.

Not trying to spam here but if you want to see the videos they are on my YouTube channel. 

https://www.youtube.com/c/VINTAGEBACKYARDRC

 

Yes, indeed it was your video series I had seen. Great set of vids . 

[Mad Zero 316]

Coincidentally, today I started building a Grasshopper that I’d bought in 2015 purely because it occurred to me I’d never actually run a 380 motor in anything & I’m curious. I’ve got a 540 GH here too so I’m looking forward to a comparison. Tiny wee things aren’t they, during the week I was refitting a 4274 motor in something - now I need tweezers!
Anyway, from reading this thread it seems that the motor I had routinely & immediately removed from any Sand Rovers, Holiday Buggies, Hoppers SRBs etc that passed through my hands might actually be of use in the smaller Tamiyas. 

[Alwb68 125]

Just got myself another old black end bell Mabuchi at the weekend. I think that’s 3 I’ve got in the last couple of months, all going into some vintage builds.

[casethejoint 311]

Quote

Am I wrong or all of the 380-powered cars had no differential?

Weren't the early Tamiya on-road RC cars 380 powered with a diff ?

There's also a 380 Sport Tuned - I have one in my Sand Rover:-

 

I have no idea what the spec is on it, but it must be faster because it has a black sticker on it, right?

[alvinlwh 7022]

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