Jump to content
Mad Zero

LiPo quality

Recommended Posts

My old (2S) LiPos died & I need new ones - how do I choose decent batteries without buying unnecessarily expensive ones because they are a ‘good make’ but turn out to be made in the same factory as unbranded packs, is there a scientific speccy way to differentiate or is the price the only giveaway?
I’m more interested in lifespan than performance as they’re for bashing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For bashing there is no need to get really expensive batteries (also not for modified racing, by the way), so I'd go for some well known, but inexpensive brand. Gens Ace or IP/Intellect for example come to mind - although it's always a little hit and miss with LiPo quality (at least from a racer's point of view).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, hIghQ said:

For bashing there is no need to get really expensive batteries (also not for modified racing, by the way), so I'd go for some well known, but inexpensive brand. Gens Ace or IP/Intellect for example come to mind - although it's always a little hit and miss with LiPo quality (at least from a racer's point of view).

Righto so the expense more to do with how well/fast/linearly the power comes out of it than build quality/materials selection then? Tuning, better cell matching etc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mad Zero said:

Righto so the expense more to do with how well/fast/linearly the power comes out of it than build quality/materials selection then? Tuning, better cell matching etc?

I think so.  I have a dozen LiPo batteries.  All but one are no-name cheap batteries. They are doing fine.  

The only thing that's bloated now is a name brand one (Venom) only after 4 years of very light use.  

If you are bashing, I'd get the cheap ones.  There was a dud with a $13 USD 5000mAh 2S. Amazon simply refunded it.  For the price of 1  Venom battery, I could buy 3 of cheap ones.  Even if one turns out a dud, you are still getting twice as many batteries for the same price.  Voltage and capacity is equal or better.  I couldn't tell you about the C ratings.  But for something like a 13.5t motor, 15C or 50C won't make much of a difference anyway. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Juggular said:

I think so.  I have a dozen LiPo batteries.  All but one are no-name cheap batteries. They are doing fine.  

The only thing that's bloated now is a name brand one (Venom) only after 4 years of very light use.  

If you are bashing, I'd get the cheap ones.  There was a dud with a $13 USD 5000mAh 2S. Amazon simply refunded it.  For the price of 1  Venom battery, I could buy 3 of cheap ones.  Even if one turns out a dud, you are still getting twice as many batteries for the same price.  Voltage and capacity is equal or better.  I couldn't tell you about the C ratings.  But for something like a 13.5t motor, 15C or 50C won't make much of a difference anyway. 

 

Some good points there but one point wasn't mentioned and this was the quality of the cells themselves just because a Lipo is cheap doesn't mean its of good quality.... Most but not all of the good battery makers out there that have the packs most would call priced high are priced high for a reason,  For the quality of the polymers & lithium needed to build the cells not to mention the quality of the cell insulation itself.... The higher priced ones use better quality of all of the main parts... Now the cheaper ones will cut corners to save a few bucks here and there for materials of lesser and lower durability for the longterm lifespan of the pack... Yes a lower priced pack will more then likely function well enough BUT remember lower quality increases the danger of a lipo failure which CAN but not always cause a burst cell to catch fire... Anyone who has had Lipos for a good amount of years and uses them in ALL forms of the hobby have had a fire or heard someone who has had one...   Believe you me those fires burn violently and quickly... Sooo in my eyes I go for the quality over the cheaper ones... JMO tho......

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As mine are dying, I'm upgrading to liHv. 

With a possible charge upto 4.35v per cell, compared to lipos of 4.2v, high voltage lipos I'm considering a safer option, if you charge them to 4.2v ,as they're less stressed (if that makes sense....) 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Original Jardasius said:

Some good points there but one point wasn't mentioned and this was the quality of the cells themselves just because a Lipo is cheap doesn't mean its of good quality.... Most but not all of the good battery makers out there that have the packs most would call priced high are priced high for a reason,  For the quality of the polymers & lithium needed to build the cells not to mention the quality of the cell insulation itself.... The higher priced ones use better quality of all of the main parts... Now the cheaper ones will cut corners to save a few bucks here and there for materials of lesser and lower durability for the longterm lifespan of the pack... Yes a lower priced pack will more then likely function well enough BUT remember lower quality increases the danger of a lipo failure which CAN but not always cause a burst cell to catch fire... Anyone who has had Lipos for a good amount of years and uses them in ALL forms of the hobby have had a fire or heard someone who has had one...   Believe you me those fires burn violently and quickly... Sooo in my eyes I go for the quality over the cheaper ones... JMO tho......

Yes I used LiPos quite extensively when they first hit the scene & seen several fires, no injuries or serious car damage as yet, it’s amazing how quickly a bodyshell can be removed when you really try isn’t it! 
 

My ‘two minds’ are basically @Juggular’s and your opinions, on the one hand although I’m only bashing, a couple of my cars (Savage XL Flux & Axial Wraith) are worth serious money & a fire could be disastrous, then again the Savage eats 2 packs at a time so quantity is also a factor ..and round we go again lol. 
 

@Wooders28 surely the same LiPo issues (storage charge, draining them too much, iffy chemicals etc) would apply to LiHV only be even more expensive? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can think of LiHV as basically the same as normal LiPos, just better quality (I've even read, that that is exactly what they are). You can can charge them up to 4.35V per cell, but in racing 4.20V is still the limit pretty much everywhere. Storage voltage recommendation is a little higher (3.85-3.90V).

Most of the bigger and better known (racing) brands actually don't sell any "normal" LiPos any more. You only get LiHVs - for the same price.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mad Zero said:

 surely the same LiPo issues (storage charge, draining them too much, iffy chemicals etc) would apply to LiHV only be even more expensive? 

Aye, the same care is required, storage, not lower than 3v ,charge in a charge bag, just with liHv able to take a higher voltage, they're less stressed at 'normal' lipo voltage.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hIghQ said:

Storage voltage recommendation is a little higher (3.85-3.90V).

Makes sense, with storage charge being midway, I'm still storage charging them to 3.8v though....🙄

(Mainly, I'm still running ,normal lipos too, and too lazy to keep altering the charger )

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very rough guideline though. Personally, I would genrally avoid the really cheap no name, off brand batteries. Outside of (stock) racing, I'd also not recommend going for the really expensive ones. I think you medium priced is probably your best bet.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, hIghQ said:

A very rough guideline though. Personally, I would genrally avoid the really cheap no name, off brand batteries. Outside of (stock) racing, I'd also not recommend going for the really expensive ones. I think you medium priced is probably your best bet.

You say ‘a very rough guideline though’ but nobody (including you) has so far advised based on any other factors.. I’m not having a dig, far from it I appreciate the help but it’s a bit unnerving choosing a product based solely on price - I mean I could design some really cool labels to stick on cheap packs & double the price. Actually let’s do that, let’s flood China with cheap **** that burns their houses down see how they ****** like it! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For myself, I mostly go by brand names I trust, not by price itself. Gave you two of these (over all medium priced, but inexpensive for the trustworthy ones) brands already. See, even though I actually do race (in some stock classes even, where batteries matter the most), I could never bring myself to buy the really expensive stuff, by other brands. Remember, there is only a select few places in the world, where LiPos are actually produced. Pretty much everyone just buys a certain grade of cells and slaps their stickers on. Sorry, there's no more precise way of telling you. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hIghQ said:

For myself, I mostly go by brand names I trust, not by price itself. Gave you two of these (over all medium priced, but inexpensive for the trustworthy ones) brands already. See, even though I actually do race (in some stock classes even, where batteries matter the most), I could never bring myself to buy the really expensive stuff, by other brands. Remember, there is only a select few places in the world, where LiPos are actually produced. Pretty much everyone just buys a certain grade of cells and slaps their stickers on. Sorry, there's no more precise way of telling you. 

No it’s fine & thank you, I do get it it’s just a right gamble isn’t it given the cash we have to hand over for them - for my use I’ll just go mid range as you suggested. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know bitd, you paid more for Nicad 'matched cells' ,which each cell had a controlled charge and discharge cycle, and 6 with the same good cycle graph where 'matched' together, giving a much better performing pack. Unmatched cells lead to the better cell doing all the work, and carrying the other cells (I've had cheap nicads ,where one or two cells got warm) 

Not sure if lipos today are given the controlled pairing in expensive 'named' race packs , or if balance charging means it isn't necessary? 

I know some of my cheaper packs (ones I've paid £4 for....), I've had to raise the low voltage cut off, as @6.5v cut off, one cell was 3.5v and the other 3v after use, where my new Intellect shorty cells are pretty much the same voltage after use (well, within 0.1v) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I know bitd, you paid more for Nicad 'matched cells' ,which each cell had a controlled charge and discharge cycle, and 6 with the same good cycle graph where 'matched' together, giving a much better performing pack. Unmatched cells lead to the better cell doing all the work, and carrying the other cells (I've had cheap nicads ,where one or two cells got warm) 

Not sure if lipos today are given the controlled pairing in expensive 'named' race packs , or if balance charging means it isn't necessary? 

I know some of my cheaper packs (ones I've paid £4 for....), I've had to raise the low voltage cut off, as @6.5v cut off, one cell was 3.5v and the other 3v after use, where my new Intellect shorty cells are pretty much the same voltage after use (well, within 0.1v) 

Well I appear to have revived a 2S LiPo that was just over 2v on one cell & just under 2v on t’other - I’ve been testing cars with it & it seems fine so we’ll see how it lasts, that was a 5000 25C Overlander soft pack untouched since 2015 btw. 
 

I used to really enjoy building race packs bitd in fact I was probably a bit of a Nicd nerd, comical looking back now of course, now I know next to f all about LiPos :lol:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mad Zero said:

Well I appear to have revived a 2S LiPo that was just over 2v on one cell & just under 2v on t’other

I've had one go under the 3v, which I got charged (nimh charge to above 3v, then balance charged), but the indifference between the 2 cells voltage after use is quite alot, and takes over an hour to balance charge. Still works though 🤷‍♂️

 

5 hours ago, Mad Zero said:

I know next to f all about LiPos :lol:

I don't think making your own lipo packs is a thing, as they just work! 

Be fun to try though...😳🔥

This is the best lipo guide I found -

https://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Wooders28 said:

I've had one go under the 3v, which I got charged (nimh charge to above 3v, then balance charged), but the indifference between the 2 cells voltage after use is quite alot, and takes over an hour to balance charge. Still works though 🤷‍♂️

 

I don't think making your own lipo packs is a thing, as they just work! 

Be fun to try though...😳🔥

This is the best lipo guide I found -

https://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide/

Yeh was being facetious ..agree tho that’s a good guide for noobs. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right then, we’ll start CHEAP & work our way up. I’ve ordered a couple of these bad boys:

EA2A633C-74D3-4D4F-9A07-ABA5DE50F31A.thumb.jpeg.07a3b285e43441d513e405e83483d3da.jpeg
 

Personally I’d never heard of them but the reviews I found (away from Amazon) were surprisingly positive so we’ll see what happens.. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the Sunpadows; silicone power & balance leads, decent Deans, all round labelling, heatshrink, posh box, stickers.. First impressions are very good!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, Mad Zero said:

Re the Sunpadows; silicone power & balance leads, decent Deans, all round labelling, heatshrink, posh box, stickers.. First impressions are very good!

I've got one of their shortys for racing, not a bad battery, although a 4 cell -  2s1p ,so not sure how long it'll last.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Wooders28 said:

I've got one of their shortys for racing, not a bad battery, although a 4 cell -  2s1p ,so not sure how long it'll last.

Yep that’s the thing - mine both work well enough, and I’ll probably order 2 more but only time will tell about reliability. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...