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alvinlwh

What's up with Tamiya and others turn limit?

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Got a TBLE-04S that came with my Holiday Buggy. I do not intend to use it with that car as, AFAIK, Tamiya ESCs are not waterproofed. This car is intended as a beach runner so waterproofing for easy clean down is important. 

Now, it has a 15.5t limit for Tamiya motors but only a 21.5t limit for "others". Why is that? What will be the effect of running something not Tamiya with 15.5t on it? I also noticed the same dual limit for brushed ESCs too. 

And while we are here, I have no experience with brushless. I intend to use a RZ in my future TA03R-S build but with this ESC, I may go BL instead. How are the performance of a Tamiya 15.5t or an "others" 21.5t compared to the RZ? 

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I would say Tamiya are protecting themselves from warranty claims as different manufacturers have different KV ratings for the the same turn motor.

I honestly wouldn’t bother with a TBLE 02/04 for a beach runner.

My Stadium Blitzer has been my trial and error car for such use.

Sand is hard power sapping stuff, I cooked a NiMH, Sport Tuned motor and Tamiya ESC as the conditions were way beyond there intended design, performance was very average for the sacrifice too. I had a 13.5t Sensored Brushless in it for a while with 2s LiPo and was much better for Sand although became a right handful on hard surfaces.

It now has a 4000KV Sensorless Brushless (ZTW Beast) combo in and is great fun and waterproof.


 

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lol... that looks like soil tilling, only very very fast!  

 

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Indications are quite confusing.

The TBLE04S is given for max 75A, but said limited to to 15.5T brushless motors. That is called being very conservative.

Generally a 10.5T sensored motor is given for 63A max consumption as per the specs indicated by any of the manufacturer indicating their details specifications. I suspect playing with the timing, you may get higher than this... But I do believe it would remain in the range of what is acceptable for this ESC.

And for waterproof, I really don't care: it's really easy to waterproof an ESC (there is sprays or product for that, and it is even possible it is already done but not indicated because Tamiya is over conversative on this as well).

 

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8 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

I honestly wouldn’t bother with a TBLE 02/04 for a beach runner.

Sorry if I wasn't too clear. The TBLE-04S will not be used in the beach runner which will be powered by a 380ST if possible, the original 380 or 540 silver can if not. Not going BL with it. Already got a few waterproof el-cheap'o ESCs ready to go into it. 

I am thinking of putting the Tamiya ESC is  into a road only TA03R-S that was originally planned to be powered by a RZ. Therefore the question of how BL that this ESC can power compares to the RZ originally planned. 

9 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

And while we are here, I have no experience with brushless. I intend to use a RZ in my future TA03R-S build but with this ESC, I may go BL instead. How are the performance of a Tamiya 15.5t or an "others" 21.5t compared to the RZ? 

 

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8 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

Got a TBLE-04S that came with my Holiday Buggy. I do not intend to use it with that car as, AFAIK, Tamiya ESCs are not waterproofed. This car is intended as a beach runner so waterproofing for easy clean down is important. 

Now, it has a 15.5t limit for Tamiya motors but only a 21.5t limit for "others". Why is that? What will be the effect of running something not Tamiya with 15.5t on it? I also noticed the same dual limit for brushed ESCs too. 

And while we are here, I have no experience with brushless. I intend to use a RZ in my future TA03R-S build but with this ESC, I may go BL instead. How are the performance of a Tamiya 15.5t or an "others" 21.5t compared to the RZ? 

Brushless motors usually have quite a bit more torque, but less RPM compared to similar winds on brushed motors, so they can (and should) be geared longer. Also they are usually more efficient and basically maintenance free. But where BL systems really shine is, when you use ESCs with variable timing (i.e. boost/turbo settings instead of the 0-Boost/"blinky" mode only). These ESCs are of course more expensive than the basic "blinky" only models, however all that goodness requires a sensored system.

Now, if you want waterproof (just to make  sure, you want that for cleaning with clear water, not because you intend the car to come into contact with salt water, right? 'Cause you wouldn't enjoy what this would do to your car...), you should probably stay away from sensored BL systems, as the sensors on the motors aren't easily waterproofed (if it can be done at all). That leaves sensorless BL systems and good old brushed. For me as a racer / track-only guy, brushless plus sensorless equals useless :ph34r: - but of course this does not apply for bashing (on a beach or elsewhere). Brushless systems will usually be more expensive than brushed, but they have no springs and (who would have guessed?) no brushes for sand to mess or get stuck with, so I think brushless may have a slight advantage there...

In the end, as usual, there is no single perfect solution. Brushed is the simplest and cheapest. Sensorless BL is maintenance free and more powerful, but not as versatile (no variable timing possible) and not as smooth (low speed cogging) as the far more expensive sensored BL systems (that cannot be really 100% water proofed) would be...

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@hIghQ the beach runner will be using a 380ST if possible, the stock 380 silver can or 540 silver can if not possible. Sorry I wasn't too clear but my question is more for a road only TA03R-S. As for contact with salt water or not, well, it probably will. I killed a 101ESC when I accidently drove a (different) car into a puddle. Avoiding salt water completely could be difficult on the beach but there should be no issue now with the beach runner as I have a few el-cheap'o ESCs lined up for it. 

So let's disregard the beach runner, the BL question is for a road only car that I originally planned to use a RZ.

So to be clear: I had originally planned to put a RZ into a road only TA03R-S. Then I got this Tamiya ESC with a car that I intended to use as a beach runner, so it will be useless in that car and I now have an extra BLable ESC that can perhaps be used in the TA03R-S. 

The question: How will the BL motors that this ESC can support compare to my original planned RZ motor? So there is no point with a great and wonderful 100000kv motor since that will not work with this ESC. 

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@alvinlwh I wasn't only thinking about electronics with the salt water. Also take good care of your bearings as even the tiniest bit of corrosion in them will make them useless. But as you said, enough of the beach car.

Ok, had a look at the TBLE-04S. The given turn-limits are somewhat strange, as it seems to have a max. continuous current of 75A (for comparison, the Hobbywing Justock G3 has only 60A, but is rated for up to 10.5T with that), so this seems ultra-conservative. It should definitely be able to at least handle a good 17.5T BL motor - which is a common motor for today's stock racing classes. Given that BL motors are stronger and more efficient, you could probably get more power and longer run times. If - and that's where others have to chime in - if the gearing on that car can be adapted far enough to make use of the different torque/RPM ratio of BL systems.

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33 minutes ago, hIghQ said:

@alvinlwh I wasn't only thinking about electronics with the salt water. Also take good care of your bearings as even the tiniest bit of corrosion in them will make them useless. But as you said, enough of the beach car.

Ok, had a look at the TBLE-04S. The given turn-limits are somewhat strange, as it seems to have a max. continuous current of 75A (for comparison, the Hobbywing Justock G3 has only 60A, but is rated for up to 10.5T with that), so this seems ultra-conservative. It should definitely be able to at least handle a good 17.5T BL motor - which is a common motor for today's stock racing classes. Given that BL motors are stronger and more efficient, you could probably get more power and longer run times. If - and that's where others have to chime in - if the gearing on that car can be adapted far enough to make use of the different torque/RPM ratio of BL systems.

Far as I am aware, bearings are "wear and tear" items so I will treat them as such.

I am careful about asking about direct equivalent of BL vs B motors in turns, I had seen plenty of flame wars regarding that question. Which is why I set limited parameters, Tamiya TBLE-04S motors vs RZ. Hopefully someone will know. Also, wondering what happens, if, like you said based on current output, if I put an "others" 15.5t on that ESC? Does it detect it is over limit and off brand? 🤔

EDIT: The TA03R-S has a very wide pinion range, 14t to 23t IIRC, that question will come once the motor question is answered. 

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With salt water if you don't clean and oil the bearings quickly, they can be ruined after a single battery - which is a bit more wear and tear than normal, IMO. ;)

Actually I have never seen or heard of any 15.5T motor before. Usually brushless motors are available as 25.5T, 21.5T, 17.5T, 13.5T, 10.5T - with no steps in between (usually). Below 10.5T there are often even half-turn steps available (e.g. 7.5T, 7.0T, 6.5T, 6.0T, etc.)

"Very wide pinion range"... well that obviously depends on what you are used to. My Xray touring cars (I know, different price class), for example, have a range of about 20 teeth - on pinion alone, without even changing the spur gear. With changing both spur and pinions combined, it allows for final gear ratios between 3.x and 9.x. But generally a couple of teeth on the pinion alone doesn't change all that much (on any car). On the TT-02 for example, the pinion range goes from 16T to 25T, which results in FDRs between 11.38 and 7.28 - which could be considered a wide range as well - but it's not a useful range. Even with modified motors (4.5T) and boosted ESCs, racers usually don't gear shorter than 8.x, but in stock classes (17.5T or slower) 7.x would result in a very slow car. Unless you can get at least close to an FDR of about 5.x a 17.5T BL may feel quite slow (since RPMs aren't all that high and the available torque isn't used in such a short gearing).

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1 hour ago, hIghQ said:

With salt water if you don't clean and oil the bearings quickly, they can be ruined after a single battery - which is a bit more wear and tear than normal, IMO. ;)

Actually I have never seen or heard of any 15.5T motor before. Usually brushless motors are available as 25.5T, 21.5T, 17.5T, 13.5T, 10.5T - with no steps in between (usually). Below 10.5T there are often even half-turn steps available (e.g. 7.5T, 7.0T, 6.5T, 6.0T, etc.)

"Very wide pinion range"... well that obviously depends on what you are used to. My Xray touring cars (I know, different price class), for example, have a range of about 20 teeth - on pinion alone, without even changing the spur gear. With changing both spur and pinions combined, it allows for final gear ratios between 3.x and 9.x. But generally a couple of teeth on the pinion alone doesn't change all that much (on any car). On the TT-02 for example, the pinion range goes from 16T to 25T, which results in FDRs between 11.38 and 7.28 - which could be considered a wide range as well - but it's not a useful range. Even with modified motors (4.5T) and boosted ESCs, racers usually don't gear shorter than 8.x, but in stock classes (17.5T or slower) 7.x would result in a very slow car. Unless you can get at least close to an FDR of about 5.x a 17.5T BL may feel quite slow (since RPMs aren't all that high and the available torque isn't used in such a short gearing).

Tamiya 54612 is 15.5t. I assumed that there will be others out there but I could be wrong. OK, what if I stick a 10.5t, Tamiya or otherwise on that ESC, will it know? 

Sorry, I did not remember the pinion available for that chassis correctly since I do not own it yet, but after checking the instructions again, it has a range of 12 pinions, 14t to 25t. But like I said, that question will comes after I had figured out if the BL motors supported by that particular ESC (which is 15.5t/21.5t) is a better option than a RZ motor. 

Sorry, I have no knowledge of Xray class (or any "serious" class for that matter), I am just a casual basher and the only car that I own currently with any kind of range for gear ratio is just a crappy old original TT-01 on a very old 23t x 2 budget motor. 

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Here is a nice write up on the TBLE 04, he does recommend not going less than 17.5t BL with non Tamiya motors, & only down to 25t for brushed. With that if the RZ motor you mention intending using (presuming here it’s a Tamiya Super Stock?) it may to much for this ESC as I believe they are 23t?, 

Anyway hope this helps..

https://www.thercracer.com/2021/05/tamiya-tble-04s-esc-speed-controller.html?m=0 

I did change a Sport Tuned in my Blackfoot to a 17.5t BL Hobbywing and I prefer the BL much better in that. (Fitted with a the older TBLE 02). 

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A 17.5T BL motor will end up somewhere around 19-23000 RPM (on 8.4V) depending on design, quality and (static) timing, but it will have quite a bit more torque, so with the correct gearing, would be faster than a brushed motor with higher RPM. Plus, once again, maintenance free and more efficient (=longer run time). Generally, I vastly prefer BL over brushed (with very few exceptions, e.g. crawlers, tanks or semi-trucks/lorries).

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9 hours ago, Re-Bugged said:

Here is a nice write up on the TBLE 04, he does recommend not going less than 17.5t BL with non Tamiya motors, & only down to 25t for brushed. With that if the RZ motor you mention intending using (presuming here it’s a Tamiya Super Stock?) it may to much for this ESC as I believe they are 23t?, 

Anyway hope this helps..

https://www.thercracer.com/2021/05/tamiya-tble-04s-esc-speed-controller.html?m=0 

I did change a Sport Tuned in my Blackfoot to a 17.5t BL Hobbywing and I prefer the BL much better in that. (Fitted with a the older TBLE 02). 

Yes I had seen that "ultimate" guide, which TBH is not that ultimate. The author ended by saying he will test it with a 13.5t and never returned to update it (although he did successfully ran a 17.5t on it). 

Yes, the RZ is a 23t and will not work on this ESC, I know that. If I am to go down that route, I will use a 1060. Like I said, I happen to have this with a kit so am wondering if the BL it can support is better than the RZ. From TamiyaUSA, "When using Item 54611 (10.5T) with Item 45057 (TBLE-02S), it is highly recommended to install Item 45063 TFU-01 ESC Cooling Fan Unit to ESC, as ESC's overheat protection function may be activated due to excessive load.", it seems your 02 can do 10.5t? I thought the specs limit for both 02 and 04 are the same at 15.5t Tamiya or am I missing something again? 

I am afraid the RZ is a bit more powerful than a ST you swapped out, 18300/350 vs 27500/500 <-that's my baseline for comparison of RZ vs 15.5t/21.5t BL.

A side note is there are a number of comments on various forums that Tamiya ESC should be ditched for all but the most basic blushers as they sucks (not sure if how true that is), but from a personal point, I know they will be a PITA to set up as I am somewhat colorblind and all these LED lights looks the same to me. I have to ask my wife to see if my batteries are charged or not for me. 

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9 hours ago, hIghQ said:

A 17.5T BL motor will end up somewhere around 19-23000 RPM (on 8.4V) depending on design, quality and (static) timing, but it will have quite a bit more torque, so with the correct gearing, would be faster than a brushed motor with higher RPM. Plus, once again, maintenance free and more efficient (=longer run time). Generally, I vastly prefer BL over brushed (with very few exceptions, e.g. crawlers, tanks or semi-trucks/lorries).

8.4V??? Is that 7s NiMHs territory? Or are you referring to fully charged 2s lipo? 

The RZ is 27500/500, so a 17.5t is not up to its performance? Or am I missing something? (let's say compare like for like and let's not being timing into the mix) 

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Just looking at the numbers, the 15.5 Tamiya BL officially supported by the 04 ESC is a 2300 @ 1v motor, meaning it is a 16560/17020 at 7.2/7.4v. Am I missing something there? It seems far weaker tha. The RZ's 27500, putting the BL more on par to DT (17000/380) or LT (16300/565 < I am actually shocked by this high torque from this motor) motors and these are kind of meant for silver can or TT replacement with only 27t/28t giving good runtime. Do correct me if I am getting this wrong. 

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52 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

8.4V??? Is that 7s NiMHs territory? Or are you referring to fully charged 2s lipo? 

The RZ is 27500/500, so a 17.5t is not up to its performance? Or am I missing something? (let's say compare like for like and let's not being timing into the mix) 

Yes, 8.4V are 2S LiPos at full charge. Sorry, personally I have left NiCd and NiMH so far behind, I don't think in these categories any more. Just like brushed systems. I really don't understand this hesistance many people sho towards these more modern (and IMHO far better technologies), as they have been around for many years and are by now proven beyond a doubt. I can understand the price argument - up to a point. From people who struggle to get this hobby going, yes, but not from people who make enough to buy dozens and dozes of car kits. Also the fear of Lipos is often far more irrational than the respect and diligence they are certainly owed could explain. But digress once again.

Those 27500 RPM are with no load, so it will never go that high while powering the car. The BL system will come much closer to it's stated RPMs (which is kv ratings between 2250 and 2800). Again, yes brushless has fewer RPMs for comparable winds, but much higher torque,so you have to gear it differently. If you don't, then it's probably going to e slower, but that would be user error, not systematic BL failure. Why do you worry so much? Worst case, that Tamiya ESC really cannot handle a 17.5T or hotter motor form another manfacturer (unlikely, but not impossible) and burns out. Then you'd be out 20€ for that ESC. An excellent BL blinky ESC from Hobbywing  could be had for about 60€ one that supports much hotter BL motors

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A 17.5T brushless that has timing set properly and is geared appropriately is far faster than a 23T RZ. I run the RZ in a Top Force and 17.5T in my HB D418 and the HB is probably 50% faster at a guess. I turn the HB down to around 65% to make it ok in the smallish space. Both are geared so they come off warm after a run (ok, the HB is more agressivley geared and has a fan so knock some of that difference off).

The torque is the difference, i run an fdr of around 5 - 5.5 with a 17.5T with modern 2.2" wheels (standard size). The Top Force is running an fdr around 8 with smaller kit wheels (tamiya star dish ones). Same with 21.5T, you need a pinion almost as big as the spur.

I would run a 13.5T with the TBLE04 ESC. I ran 13.5T without problems on the previous ESC. I rate them as a cheap but useful ESC since they run the kit motors fine and the option to swap in a cheap 13.5T is always good. They won't win races (although in F1 they could) as the punch isn't great, they just feel a bit sluggish, but they are a decent option since they come with the kit.

I think the difference in turn recommendations is the tamiya motors are old tech and a modern motor is light years ahead. They must draw a lot more current given how fast they are. It makes no sense that an ESC rated at 75a is limited to 17.5T

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8 hours ago, hIghQ said:

Yes, 8.4V are 2S LiPos at full charge. Sorry, personally I have left NiCd and NiMH so far behind, I don't think in these categories any more. Just like brushed systems. I really don't understand this hesistance many people sho towards these more modern (and IMHO far better technologies), as they have been around for many years and are by now proven beyond a doubt. I can understand the price argument - up to a point. From people who struggle to get this hobby going, yes, but not from people who make enough to buy dozens and dozes of car kits. Also the fear of Lipos is often far more irrational than the respect and diligence they are certainly owed could explain. But digress once again.

Those 27500 RPM are with no load, so it will never go that high while powering the car. The BL system will come much closer to it's stated RPMs (which is kv ratings between 2250 and 2800). Again, yes brushless has fewer RPMs for comparable winds, but much higher torque,so you have to gear it differently. If you don't, then it's probably going to e slower, but that would be user error, not systematic BL failure. Why do you worry so much? Worst case, that Tamiya ESC really cannot handle a 17.5T or hotter motor form another manfacturer (unlikely, but not impossible) and burns out. Then you'd be out 20€ for that ESC. An excellent BL blinky ESC from Hobbywing  could be had for about 60€ one that supports much hotter BL motors

I have no fear of lipos, persay, I just blew one up last week, nearly burnt down the shed where many of my model are stored. Don't mean I will stop using them. However it is the first time I see 8.4v quoted as lipo as I seem to see 7.4v for calculation more often, unless I am missing something?

I like brushed motors, never had a desire to go into brushless until this ESC came along. A friend once said that I should go kill myself for not going Lipo and BL. Is sticking with old technology as a personal choice such a bad thing that I deserve to die for? 🤔

Why am I worried? Why am I asking? Isn't what this forum is for, to gain knowledge? I had heard arguments that the RPM quoted is for no load before, but isn't that a like for like comparison? OK, what will be the numbers when under load then? RZ vs BL then. I can only work with the info I have, and off the parts database, they are for no load if i am not wrong. 

Like I said, I did not have a desire to go BL before this ESC came along, therefore I only want to work with this ESC for the moment, it does not matter to me how great HW (or anyone else) ESC is as they ever never a consideration and therefore not part of my original question. 

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5 hours ago, Jonathon Gillham said:

A 17.5T brushless that has timing set properly and is geared appropriately is far faster than a 23T RZ. I run the RZ in a Top Force and 17.5T in my HB D418 and the HB is probably 50% faster at a guess. I turn the HB down to around 65% to make it ok in the smallish space. Both are geared so they come off warm after a run (ok, the HB is more agressivley geared and has a fan so knock some of that difference off).

The torque is the difference, i run an fdr of around 5 - 5.5 with a 17.5T with modern 2.2" wheels (standard size). The Top Force is running an fdr around 8 with smaller kit wheels (tamiya star dish ones). Same with 21.5T, you need a pinion almost as big as the spur.

I would run a 13.5T with the TBLE04 ESC. I ran 13.5T without problems on the previous ESC. I rate them as a cheap but useful ESC since they run the kit motors fine and the option to swap in a cheap 13.5T is always good. They won't win races (although in F1 they could) as the punch isn't great, they just feel a bit sluggish, but they are a decent option since they come with the kit.

I think the difference in turn recommendations is the tamiya motors are old tech and a modern motor is light years ahead. They must draw a lot more current given how fast they are. It makes no sense that an ESC rated at 75a is limited to 17.5T

That's useful information, thanks. 

You mentioned "timing set properly", what does that mean? The TBLE-04S has timing settings? 

So next question is: if a 17.5t is faster than the RZ, what will be the BL equivalent for the RZ? I am not going for "as fast as possible" but just on par with the RZ here. 

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7 minutes ago, alvinlwh said:

I have no fear of lipos, persay, I just blew one up last week, nearly burnt down the shed where many of my model are stored. Don't mean I will stop using them. However it is the first time I see 8.4v quoted as lipo as I seem to see 7.4v for calculation more often, unless I am missing something?

I like brushed motors, never had a desire to go into brushless until this ESC came along. A friend once said that I should go kill myself for not going Lipo and BL. Is sticking with old technology as a personal choice such a bad thing that I deserve to die for? 🤔

Why am I worried? Why am I asking? Isn't what this forum is for, to gain knowledge? I had heard arguments that the RPM quoted is for no load before, but isn't that a like for like comparison? OK, what will be the numbers when under load then? RZ vs BL then. I can only work with the info I have, and off the parts database, they are for no load if i am not wrong. 

Like I said, I did not have a desire to go BL before this ESC came along, therefore I only want to work with this ESC for the moment, it does not matter to me how great HW (or anyone else) ESC is as they ever never a consideration and therefore not part of my original question. 

I have never had any Lipo fail nor have I been present when that happened to anyone. It happens very rarely nowadays - when using decent equipment and treating the batteries properly, of course. Not saying you didn't, it still can happen, but very, very rarely. 7.4V is the nominal voltage, not the voltage they have when fully charged (which is 8.4V for LiPo and 8.70 for LiHV) - and LiPos have only minimal voltage drop under load, so 8.4V is much more realistic for these calculations than 7.4 (which is even below storage voltage already).

Deserve to die for? :blink: I never said that und never would, not even jokingly to a friend - although I might tease a friend on this topic, but not in that way. Also nothing wrong with liking brushed, but I'm astonished that you were apparently never even curious to try something newer (and in my personal opinion) better...

Nothing wrong with asking questions either, but sometimes it seems you expect the kind of answers no one can really honestly give you. I'm being honest with you and try to explain the differences as good as I can, without making any false claims. I won't promise you any numbers, so I am very cautious and unfortunately need to stay vague sometimes. Of course I could just pull some numbers or "facts" out of... the end of my digestive tract and claim they were true, but that is simply not my style (there's enough people who do that all over the internet). There is no BL motor anyone can guarantee you that will have the exact same performance when you just drop it in without adjusting the car. As I have told you several times, for brushless you need to adapt the gearing to its characteristics, then you can get the same (or better)  performance out of the car.

I also told you the brushless will get closer (but of course also not quite) to their max. RPM under load, given their higher torque. Never claimed that was only true for brushed.

I only mentioned the HW ESC for the worst case, i.e. when you should really burn out the Tamiya ESC, as an alternative that you could replace it with, which could run whatever motor you happened to have used. But, ok, seems that kind advice is not really what you are after. I never said to outright go and get the HW and to forget the Tamiya... :rolleyes:

So whatever (and how much or often) I try to explain, it's apparently never good enough for you. Therefore, I'm out of here now.

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5 hours ago, alvinlwh said:

That's useful information, thanks. 

You mentioned "timing set properly", what does that mean? The TBLE-04S has timing settings? 

So next question is: if a 17.5t is faster than the RZ, what will be the BL equivalent for the RZ? I am not going for "as fast as possible" but just on par with the RZ here. 

I'm referring to the timing on the motor endbell. Some motors have fixed timing, most have adjustable timing. It allows you to set the motor how you want (ie lower kv more torque, higher kv less torque) but really there is a sweet spot, so you set it and then use gearing to adjust for the track. Bear in mind on race kits you have infinite gearing as you can change spur and pinions, not like a Tamiya kit with 5 pinion options.

The TBLE ESC don't have any adjustable timing. That can completely transform the performance and is dynamic, so the timing increases with rpm. I race blinky classes so can't use this feature. You also need decent batteries for this too. When playing around using NiMH i was disappointed how the car didn't get faster no matter what I did. Put in a lipo and it went ballistic.

Its hard to find an equivalent between brushed and brushless, especially with limited gearing options. Put a 13.5T in any tamiya without changing the pinion and you'll be really disappointed. Gear it right and it will fly. Most Tamiya seem to have fdr between 8 and 11, which would be suitable for around 6.5T motors. Most Tamiya, and people, couldn't handle a 6.5T motor.

Also, there is a huge variation in motors. There was a big change a few years ago (no idea what) but anything older was left behind, and the newer motors were so much faster. So an old speed passion, trackstar etc is slower than a Surpass V4S or V5R motor.

I have a couple of Super Stocks as they look better, but generally run kit motors for the backyard or brushless in race cars. Brushless are easy as they don't require maintenance, but I am currently replacing worn out kit motors which are dying from use. Its easier to buy more $6 motors off hobbyking than try to work out what brushless would work best.

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I ran my TT02 on BL all Summer, it’s got a TBLE02 and TBLM01 10.5t on it and a fan on the ESC running a 23t pinion, it’s plenty fast enough with the timing set at 0 and I’ve actually filled it back a bit as it was a bit much on the TT02, I’ve taken it off road a few times and given it a good 15 minute run and the motor is hot to the touch, plan was always to transfer it to the TA03RS but never got round to it over summer, if I can’t get the TA06 running nicely (in a straight line) then maybe I’ll stick it in that.

I got mine from Plaza Japan a fair bit cheaper than anywhere in the UK and am quite happy, I’m sure there is better faster motors bout for less but it was what I wanted to get, even though it’s sensored there is some cogging on it, not sure what the cause of that is but generally it’s not driven that slowly to make a difference.

As a combo they seem to work fine and never had the ESC cut out in it either.

 

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8 hours ago, Nwc100 said:

I ran my TT02 on BL all Summer, it’s got a TBLE02 and TBLM01 10.5t on it and a fan on the ESC running a 23t pinion, it’s plenty fast enough with the timing set at 0 and I’ve actually filled it back a bit as it was a bit much on the TT02, I’ve taken it off road a few times and given it a good 15 minute run and the motor is hot to the touch, plan was always to transfer it to the TA03RS but never got round to it over summer, if I can’t get the TA06 running nicely (in a straight line) then maybe I’ll stick it in that.

I got mine from Plaza Japan a fair bit cheaper than anywhere in the UK and am quite happy, I’m sure there is better faster motors bout for less but it was what I wanted to get, even though it’s sensored there is some cogging on it, not sure what the cause of that is but generally it’s not driven that slowly to make a difference.

As a combo they seem to work fine and never had the ESC cut out in it either.

 

Thanks, you pretty much confirm what many said, that the paper turn limits are bull to begin with, so that gives me more scope to motor choice. 

Now... Will you say your 10.5t is far more than a RZ? That will also give me some turn numbers to work out what I need. 

I am UK too, so if your combo did not cut out, it is unlikely to cut out for me too given the similar temperature curve. I also buy from PJ whenever possible as paying 3 times more locally is just impossible to swallow. 

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