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Nikko85

4 cell NiMH ESC

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I am enjoying my Mf01x, but the 7.2 v battery is still too large, and I'd rather not go to LiPo. Given that the car is quite a handful I am happy to reduce speed a little. I've looked at options for having the battery in the body, but it would raise the COG.

It seems I have two options, number one is go for a 6 AA pack which fits in the battery bay, and as a plus I have a few of these. The problem with these is that my current motor (Torque Tuned) draws too much current, meaning the ESC switches off on full throttle after the second or so. A solution could be a lower turn motor, perhaps 55T which will allow the car to run. I've used these 7.2 AA packs with HW1060 fine before, but just needs a less hungry motor. With a 280 or 390 they have been fine. 

The other option could be a 4 cell NiMH pack, offering less voltage but the same ability to supply current. Run times would be the same, just hypothetically at 2/3 the power.

My first question is, has anyone tried 4 cells with a HW1060 before?

The HW1060 is confusing, in that it gives 5-9 cell as min/max on the input in the spesc, but then suggest 4-6 cell is ok...

"suitable Motor: With 2 Lipo or 4-6 NiMH 540 or 550 Size Motor: ≥12T Or RPM<30000 @7.2V"

I'd rather not spend too much cash on a 4 cell NiMH that won't work. I might be able to squeeze in a 5 cell.

My second question is, and I know this is relative to the batteries and output, but would it be better to try and lower the motor on 7.2 V at lower current, or keep a good current to a bigger motor at 4.8 volts? I am interested in off road driving, where currently the car really does need to be at full throttle to confidently take on grass. 

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I'd go with something like this.. I use this in my MicroRS4..  then your 1060 will get the full 7.2v.

IMG_Apr262021at123016PM.jpg.e9b13db1c3bf9fa14ade5f2934c6e64d.jpg

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9 hours ago, Willy iine said:

I'd go with something like this.. I use this in my MicroRS4..  then your 1060 will get the full 7.2v.

IMG_Apr262021at123016PM.jpg.e9b13db1c3bf9fa14ade5f2934c6e64d.jpg

Many thanks, but  I'm afraid that wouldn't fit. I'm trying to use the original battery compartment to keep the weight low.

At the moment the battery (and horizontal battery support) stick out quite far. It's not terrible, but the whole car would look nicer if the lower battery, and support was tucked in 15 mm or so on each side. The car is already quite high on the chassis, so something low sticking out far really breaks up the lines.

ej9mjxG.jpg

There is just enough space for either 3 AA batteries going in width ways so I can put in a 3 x 2 AA pack. 

Although AA batteries are longer, 2 x AA length is less that 3 x Sub C length, so it helps. However a 4 cell NiMH would look the best.

tabgaw3.jpg

I can also fit in a sub C pack on it's side, so a 5 cell pack might work too.

But I don't have any to spare, and I want to check it would fit and work with the ESC first, and also check if a high voltage lower turn motor with 2500 mAh or a high powered motor at 4.8 v and 5000 mAh might give more performance?

I've also got a TBLE too, although something tells me the HW is more flexible.

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Is there are particular reason you're not wanting to go LiPo?

There are some Lithium Ion packs that would fit what you want beautifully, but they are similar to LiPo as far as charging and care go.

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I was looking for the same thing not long ago. 

Mtroniks Viper micro Marine10 is rated for 4.8v but have a read through the thread to see if it is really suitable for you or not. 

I ended up going Lipo with my build while I understand and respect that is not what you want so will not push you in that direction. 

There are some 1S - 2S (for 3.7v to 7.4v so 4.8v will be fine) micro ESCs that I got for my 130 motor cars, but they are for smaller motors, so a standard 540 may melt it. Suggest you use "1S ESC" as a start for your search.

Someone mentioned that are 4.8v ESC for normal cars on this forum to me once but I cannot find that reply. Hope he will jump in if he sees this. From what I can recall, they are not cheap. 

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Just to add, the TRE-01 is made for 4 x AA but maybe underpowered for a 540 motor (55T maybe OK) and you have to use it with Tamiya own Finespec radio and it is expensive and difficult to find. 

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Many thanks all - ideally I'd like to keep the charger and battery type I've got, so really just want to check they work.

Mardave and Kamtec cars were all 4 cell, and ran like anything - so it can be done, I was just hoping I didn't have to spend £20 on a battery to experiment! With any luck someone reading this thread in a few years will learn from my mistake/success.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Nikko85 said:

Many thanks all - ideally I'd like to keep the charger and battery type I've got, so really just want to check they work.

Mardave and Kamtec cars were all 4 cell, and ran like anything - so it can be done, I was just hoping I didn't have to spend £20 on a battery to experiment! With any luck someone reading this thread in a few years will learn from my mistake/success.

In fact your answer is with the Mardave Viper BangerOval Speedo, which is in fact a Mtroniks Viper of some kind, probably a Eco27, and that one does support 4.8v.

https://www.mtroniks.net/prod/car-speed-controls/Viper-Eco-27.htm

I can confirm that it will work with 4 x AA as I had tested an Autosport20 (same 4.8v rating) with that before. The 1060 will not work with 4 x AA unfortunately when I tried. 

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Many thanks.

Using an old tamiya battery connector, 4 x C batteries and a little bit of masking tape I was able to make up a 4 cell C battery that should provide the same power as a real one for a test...........

.......and it failed completely (but the test was a success in that).

Both cars (TBLE-02 and HW1060) were very slow (much slower than 2/3 power) and would cut off if pushed too hard. I may try with a mocked up 5 cell, as the 1060 suggests that 5 cells can work. 

What's really annoying is that I've had a Hobbywing 2030 Brushless motor and ESC on 4.8 and 7.2 volts with AA and it would have been perfect, but I can't get a little brushless motor into this.

I think I might have to live with the sticking out battery, oh well, or invest in the new ESC or new LiPo. Or go down the higher turn battery, as @OoALEJOoO has had good luck with a 55T motor and AA.

Edit - I tried a Jury-rigged 5 cell and it worked better. I found this online from HW.

When the voltage is below 4.5V, the output power will be halved. When the voltage is lower than 4.0V, the output will be cut off and won’t be resumed again.

I guess for the 4 cell the output was less than 4.5 v which meant it was halved, which would explain the total lack of power. The 5 cell gave enough to be over that 4.5 volt threshold, and so was much better. So, if I go for a smaller cell pack it'll be 5 cell minimum then.

5 cells running traverse in the bay will still look better than a 2 x 3 pack. The question is, is it worth it?

It may be worth getting a 5 cell to check. If I can tuck in the battery at the expense of 1/6 the power, that's fine - but it seems it's not always so simple.

 

 

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I can confirm even a 6xAAA has worked well with a 55T 540 motor (MF-01X) and 370 sport-tuned motor (T3-01). This is using Tenergy 1000mAh NiMh AAAs. No hiccups until the battery gets depleted. The same battery with a silver-can 27T 540 almost immediately triggers the low-voltage cut-off on the ESC.

As far as running with 4x cells, I believe you cannot disable the low-voltage cut-off on the Hobbywing 1060, but you can disable it on Tamiya's TEU-105BK and TBLE-02S (and perhaps others). You would just need to be mindful to not over-discharge the battery.

*EDIT: This article briefly covers disabling the cut-off if using 4xAA with a Dancing Rider:

https://www.thercracer.com/2018/04/57405-tamiya-dancing-rider-t3-01-build.html

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On 10/21/2021 at 1:02 AM, OoALEJOoO said:

I can confirm even a 6xAAA has worked well with a 55T 540 motor (MF-01X) and 370 sport-tuned motor (T3-01). This is using Tenergy 1000mAh NiMh AAAs. No hiccups until the battery gets depleted. The same battery with a silver-can 27T 540 almost immediately triggers the low-voltage cut-off on the ESC.

As far as running with 4x cells, I believe you cannot disable the low-voltage cut-off on the Hobbywing 1060, but you can disable it on Tamiya's TEU-105BK and TBLE-02S (and perhaps others). You would just need to be mindful to not over-discharge the battery.

*EDIT: This article briefly covers disabling the cut-off if using 4xAA with a Dancing Rider:

https://www.thercracer.com/2018/04/57405-tamiya-dancing-rider-t3-01-build.html

Many thanks. If AAA works with with a 55T motor, I wonder what I could take AA too? My AA are 2200 mAh, so they are in some ways closer to Sub C in size and capacity than they are to AAA batteries, however they obviously can't provide the current needed.

However, I do love the power that the Torque Tuned gives for such a little car, so I may have to live with it for one of the cars, but do something for the other (45T motor on AA perhaps?). It's times like this I wish I had enough stock to try lots of different ideas with spending too much!

 

 

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If the cells were side by side instead of double inline, a 5-cell, 6.0V battery should fit in the same space as the 7.2V stick, but without as much sticking out the ends, so your covers could be more recessed in the chassis. 6 volts should be enough juice to run whatever motor and ESC you want. Try using 4/5 size sub c cells to get a bit of weight reduction and/or clearance if the battery tray is particularly tight. I had been considering building that exact custom pack for my Big Bubba project, but I decided to stay with a typical 7.2V stick (except it won't be in the factory location).

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1 hour ago, El Gecko said:

If the cells were side by side instead of double inline, a 5-cell, 6.0V battery should fit in the same space as the 7.2V stick, but without as much sticking out the ends, so your covers could be more recessed in the chassis. 6 volts should be enough juice to run whatever motor and ESC you want. Try using 4/5 size sub c cells to get a bit of weight reduction and/or clearance if the battery tray is particularly tight. I had been considering building that exact custom pack for my Big Bubba project, but I decided to stay with a typical 7.2V stick (except it won't be in the factory location).

Thanks, I can run a Sub C end to end in the compartment, 5-cell, 6.0V gives a nice compromise.

In the end I think I'll just run black 7.2V packs, but it's good to have options. It's the one downside of this 1/14 Mf01x project, everything is a compromise with the battery. If only it would take a small brushless motor! 

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