Can a Bad Brushless Motor Fry an ESC?

[DPR250R]

Hi again all... 

Setup: TT-02B with TBLE-02S ESC and 13.5 Turn BL Motor was running 6Cell NiMH.

This is my sons car and I was ripping it around in my back yard and was thinking... this thing is really nice and reliable... then the motor stopped working. Steering but no go.   I do not know if the motor is bad or the ESC.  The ESC will start blinking fast (seems like two colors) after a plug and unplug of the battery then full throttle. 

I had a HW BL ESC on order anyway cause I wanted to switch to LIPO without worry.  

My question is... would it be a big risk to attach the new ESC to the motor and give it a try without knowing if it is the motor or ESC that went bad? Just dont want to send another $50 down the drain... 

Thanks

[SupraChrgd82]

It’s possible it went into thermal shutdown (got too hot).  In theory, you’re using it within it’s parameters; max 10.5t sensored and NiMH.

Give it 1/2 hr to cool off, unplug and wait for the reset.  If it still doesn’t work, it is likely dead.

Your plan to test with another motor is definitely a good idea to confirm that may still have life left in it.

 

https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/electronics/rc-esc-tble-02s-brushless/

 

 

[Sir Crashalot]

As well as the overheat protection mentioned above, the ESC also has overload protection. 

The LED flashes are shown below in the troubleshooting section.

[silvertriple]

Flash red quickly means overload protection.

You have a 13.5T motor in there if I see the picture right. If the timing can be changed on the can itself, get it back to the way it was delivered, and then check if the gearing is within the recommendation from the motor provider. Having one or 2 tooth too much on the motor pinion could cause this (and eventually fry your ESC is there is no overload or overheat protection)...

[DPR250R]

Thanks everyone. I am not really worried about the TBLE…. was moving away from it anyway. 
 

Was curious about the chance that if the motor was bad… will it take out a new esc?

Through your experience when swapping things around… have you ever fried a new esc because of a bad motor?

[silvertriple]

I just read again the first post, and blinking red/green means it is either

• brushless mode without sensor connected: check the cable it may have been disconnected
• brushed mode with a sensor cable connected : in that case, you have to reset the ESC in Brushless mode and retry.

The sensor cable maybe damaged as well : as per the picture it goes next to the propeller shaft (not a good idea to have a cable going near that). Check the this cable first. disconnect, check cable state and reconnect (eventually with contact spray applied at both ends) and retry. If not then go to reset the ESC in brushless mode and retry (I believe from what I read when searching about a fried receiver that the some TBLE02S may reset itself in brushed mode when overheated or when something goes wrong). If this works you sorted it. if not, then you have to find another ESC (motor is rarely the issue, although than heating may damage a motor). I would in anycase suggest to check that gearing is ok for the motor recommendations (13.5T motor with a 4WD car should be around 7 ratio: you start by this, and if the motor don't heat over 60°C after a few minutes run, you may remove one tooth to the motor pinion and repeat)....

[DPR250R]

1 hour ago, silvertriple said:

(motor is rarely the issue, although than heating may damage a motor)

Thank you… that is the kind of input I was looking for. 
 

I already have a 10BL120 ordered for this car. I didn't want to plug it in and have a bad motor fry the new ESC.   
 

I am done with this TBLE… it doesn’t owe me anything. 

[silvertriple]

6 minutes ago, DPR250R said:

Thank you… that is the kind of input I was looking for. 
 

I already have a 10BL120 ordered for this car. I didn't want to plug it in and have a bad motor fry the new ESC.   
 

I am done with this TBLE… it doesn’t owe me anything. 

That being said, if heating was the initial issue, changing the ESC and put the same motor (or a different with the same number of turns) may put the next motor in the same situation, unless you get your gearing correct...

[DPR250R]

42 minutes ago, silvertriple said:

That being said, if heating was the initial issue, changing the ESC and put the same motor (or a different with the same number of turns) may put the next motor in the same situation, unless you get your gearing correct...

Yup… will keep and eye out for everything you mentioned in your post. Very helpful!! 
 

I just reset the ESC to brushless and re-seated the sensor wire. Still same issue. 
 

Maybe sensorboard on motor? Will start with ESC and report back. 

[DPR250R]

New ESC didn’t fix it. Ordered new motor. 

[DPR250R]

Some more notes... Soldered in the 10BL120 and fired everything up.  

When hitting the throttle with the sensor wire connected no reaction from the motor.  With it disconnected the motor at least responds to the throttle... but it kind of sputters and its not right.  In fear of damaging the brand new ESC... I just called it quits and ordered a motor.  

Both the TBLE and the 10BL light up with the throttle like they are supposed to... so I assume the receiver is ok.  I am just a little baffled/discouraged because I thought BL motors were pretty bulletproof. 

[sosidge]

1 hour ago, DPR250R said:

Some more notes... Soldered in the 10BL120 and fired everything up.  

When hitting the throttle with the sensor wire connected no reaction from the motor.  With it disconnected the motor at least responds to the throttle... but it kind of sputters and its not right.  In fear of damaging the brand new ESC... I just called it quits and ordered a motor.  

Both the TBLE and the 10BL light up with the throttle like they are supposed to... so I assume the receiver is ok.  I am just a little baffled/discouraged because I thought BL motors were pretty bulletproof. 

Turn the motor by hand to make sure it turns smoothly (should be a click as it goes over the magnet poles but otherwise no other resistance).

Next step is to take it apart, taking note of timing position and the sensor board location, any debris or damage should be pretty obvious.

Sounds like it might be a sensor board issue in the motor, could be as simple as a dirty connector.

[DPR250R]

So after a mental break… I decided to reset the new esc and start over. I set up my throttle end points and what do you know? Its working without the sensor wire connected (the 10BL).

Just ripped it around for a while and it seems good. I do notice the lack of control when first taking off without the sensor wire connected but my son won’t care. 
 

I didn't have a spare brushless to check the TBLE I replaced so I used a brushed motor to check it… and it worked. I assume that means I didn't fry it. 
 

Things are pointing to something sensor related on the motor so I am going sensor less and moving on. 
 

After all this… one thing I learned is that a sensored motor can be used in sensor less mode if the ESC can handle it… which is pretty cool. 
 

Thanks everyone for jumping in and helping! 

 

[DPR250R]

So… after a couple minutes running today it quit again.   
 

I had the new motor anyway so I soldered it in. Runs amazing. 
 

With the old motor… I tested it and it has an open circuit when checking from pole A to B. Going to assume a broken winding, loose connection, broken solder joint, etc in the motor. It was $33 so not the end of the world.  
 

My sons car got upgraded from 13.5 to 10.5 turns in the process… lol