Avante/Vanquish/Egress shock angle

[Saito2]

As the Avante series progressed, the front shocks progressed from almost horizontal (Avante) to almost vertical (original Egress) and in-between (Vanquish/2001). What effect does this changing front shock angle have on this series of cars? Is one more beneficial? Were the BF8/BF9 lower mount plates left off the re-re Egress just to cut cost and/or complexity or does the re-re Egress geometry (with its new front tower as well) have some advantage over the original Egress? I like the looks of the old upright shocks. Currently, with the use of a homemade front tower, I have the shocks set on my re-re with decent ground clearance (the stock re-re seems much lower in the front than the original) as well as allowing the chassis to bottom out on full compression. They are close to the Vanquish angle at present. Any thoughts from the Egress experts? 

[sosidge]

Well there's a couple of things going on. Moving the mounting point inboard as on the original Egress softens the rate at the wheel, and increases travel (all else being equal). A more stood up shock has closer to linear behaviour and is also stiffer.

I'm sure that the Egress design is a direct response to the poor performance of the Avante, whereas the 2001 and Vanquish designs were about reducing complexity and compatibility with the CVA shocks.

If you're happy with the way your car works right now I'd say that's good enough.

[kontemax]

The lower front end of the model should touch the ground and the front wheels should also rise a little off the ground.
This allows for good sag and avoids the bouncy front-end.
The best configuration is the original Egress, if you decide to keep the original shocks.
Then the lower shock mounts closer to the lower arm pivot and the near vertical shock gives you enough extension and compression to have what I described above.
Keep in mind that the Egress's long carbon steerer plate interferes with the movement of the full compression suspension.
The Avante aluminum steering yoke is best suited for this purpose.

Max

[Saito2]

2 hours ago, kontemax said:

The best configuration is the original Egress, if you decide to keep the original shocks

So the original, most upright configuration works best on this chassis?

How is the Avante 2001's steering bridge/yoke?

[Gazzalene]

So did the shock angles change to accommodate lesser/cheaper shocks. Rather than outright better handling mod? sorry I am a true synic

[Saito2]

7 hours ago, Gazzalene said:

So did the shock angles change to accommodate lesser/cheaper shocks. Rather than outright better handling mod? sorry I am a true synic

Tough to say. The front Avante gold shocks were on the shorter side to accommodate their nearly horizontal position. The Hicap shocks that came after were offered in more traditional "mini" and "short" lengths that would fit other cars. They debuted on the Egress in kit form and the Egress went as far as to add the BF8/9 lower brackets and the tallest shock tower to accommodate them. The hop-up versions came with a shorter add-on shock tower for use on the Avante/Vanquish. I'm guessing Tamiya must have felt their was an advantage to them being more upright or they wouldn't have bothered with the BF8/9 brackets and unique taller tower on the Egress. @kontemax suggest this was the optimum position which leads me to think Tamiya might have cut corners by omitting all that in the re-re, unless the brackets and such were problematic/weak in the original. They also left out the add-on tower with the recent reissue Hicaps for the VQS.

[kontemax]

22 hours ago, Saito2 said:

So the original, most upright configuration works best on this chassis?

How is the Avante 2001's steering bridge/yoke?

Yes, the Egress configuration is not perfect but it the best in front of all Avante chassis models.
Shorter the damper, closer the bottom end of the damper to the arm pivot must be, if you want have some decent suspension travel.
The Egress steering bridge is too wide and the steering ball joints at full compression interfere to the bridge itself, limiting the compression.
Avante 2001 steering bridge is narrow and works better.
The Avante aluminum steering bridge is narrow are the Avante 2001 one but has the ball joints in a different position and they don't touch the steering bridge.
I resolved with a custom made carbon fiber steering bridge that you can see in my old thread "revamp my Egress runner" (or something similar).

Max

[kontemax]

10 hours ago, Gazzalene said:

So did the shock angles change to accommodate lesser/cheaper shocks. Rather than outright better handling mod? sorry I am a true synic

I believe that designers of the Avante wanted the almost horizontal front dampers so they needed to be short.
A matter of look and design but not perfect concerning the work of the suspension.

Max

[kontemax]

Here the pictures of my steering bridge.
 

Max