New Bruisers

[crashbandicoot14 0]

Hey everybody. I want to get a petition going for everybody who wants a new style bruiser to get made and give it to the folks at Tamiya. Who knows, maybe they'll get the picture and make a newstyle bruiser or mountaineer. So just drop me an e-mail at suicycojay@yahoo.com or nitroglycerinacid@yahoo.com with your name and email address. If I get enough, maybe we can do something about it

[WillyChang 1814]

Why not find out first what happened to the OLD petition... [:I]

[Shodog 1835]

All this will do is get everybodies hopes up for nothing. there was an old petition that had well over 800 signatures and nothing ever came of it.

Jim

[jealouse 0]

Instead of sending a piece of paper with a bunch of names & signatures on it, we should all send a creditcard number and an authorization to charge us $800 a pop!

if we get enough of this, i'm sure someone in tamiya will think twice before it's thrown out again...

i'm in by the way

quote:Originally posted by jeeperguy1083

Hey everybody. I want to get a petition going for everybody who wants a new style bruiser to get made and give it to the folks at Tamiya. Who knows, maybe they'll get the picture and make a newstyle bruiser or mountaineer. So just drop me an e-mail at suicycojay@yahoo.com or nitroglycerinacid@yahoo.com with your name and email address. If I get enough, maybe we can do something about it

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[WillyChang 1814]

Sorry to disappoint, but Toys are a low-margin high-volume product to the factory. Take it from me that there is HUGE markups along the distribution line, before it gets to the end-buyer.

Imho 1000 units would not make an economically-viable production run for any kit, unless the price was about $5000 each. For 1000 units @ RRP$800 Tamiya wouldn't even be able to organise the artwork for the box, let alone making up new molds for the cast metals and body parts and dies for all the pressed metal bits.

Talk in tens of thousands maybe, perhaps they'll listen.

[DJTheo 2]

quote:For 1000 units @ RRP$800 Tamiya wouldn't even be able to organise the artwork for the box

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That was a bit exaggerated, right Wil, they wouldnt make a Rembrand on the cover, or would they? [][]

And this way they would never make those 414 limited editions, ok they use some existing parts, but nobody prohibits them of using they existing drawings and casts for a 3 speed chassis []

Also dont tell me that kits like the Dump Truck sell in millions and are cheap to produce...

I will once again repeat my humble opinion that many nice things will come up in the future from Tamiya, they are not as dum as many think, they are just playing with time as its on their side, i.e. the more they wait the more realism fans will be around waiting and the more cash they will be ready to spend []

Only time will tell who was right...

[TamiyaMan 5]

This tooling is already paid for. Limited runs are indeed feasible.

Tamiya said the P34 Re-Release was just 1500 kits.

[RETRO R/C 59]

You cant call the 6 wheeler a REAL re-relase though can you........only thing carried over was the basic body.

The only true re-release so far has been the XR-311.......

I wont go over what I have said a hundred times before ...........just too expensive for Tamiya for it to be financially viable.

Cheers

Darryn

[bholio 0]

Common sense has me agreeing with those who say it is not feasable for Tamiya to create a Bruiser at a sellable price point.

On the other hand, they do produce all of those 1/14 Semi truck kits, along with different trailers. That same common sense would come out against these the existance of these trucks too.

I do think Tamiya would be emabrassed to release the Bruiser with the body of a 20+ year old truck. They would need to update the body to a Tacoma or Ford Ranger. In

I'd be happier to see a rerelease of the Wrangler or other XC kits (not RTR).

[urban warrior 359]

Hi all,

well I guess it is much more complicated. But in principle I am not convinced, that it would be too expensive making re-runs on the old molds. Except the fact, that those molds have to be maintenanced to be used again.

I am much more critical versus Tamiya or Kyosho, since I believe it is merely a decision of some managers in Shizuoka City. Who says that the exorbitant expensive tank kits are sold in millions? Who can make me believe, that the already happened re-releases are bestsellers? I believe the re-release of the XR-311 was a flop, they were sold half price after some time here in Germany, even in the hobby shops.

The "toy giants" just have in mind what they like. I am sure the touring car series, RTR's and QD's are good for the main stream buyer. But it principle they give a s... on the opinion of the modeler. The modeler has to buy what they sell, and if it is broken or outdated, he should buy the new models. "What ... he states an own opinion about his demands? Why can't he just pull out his wallet and just shut up?" That's the way of the world. And it is making the world more uniform.

Look at all the fates of the real scale cars: Tamiya 3-Speeds, XC/XB's and Kyosho 1:9 EP/GP. It seems like the model companies have lost the interest in producing what scale modelling means, a realistic world reduced in its size. OK they have the scale trucks and tanks, and with the tanks there has been a new dawn of old concepts revived with contemporary techniques. Maybe one day they will decide to give the 3-Speeds a second chance, but that will only depend on what they have in mind, not in economics. Modelling is not always to be counted in numbers. Or how would you explain jet-engines costing 3000 bucks or the high price Wedico models? In modelling there is always a clientele that just pays and don't asks. Look at all the auction prices for 3-Speeds and XC/XB's even when they were available in larger numbers. Don't tell me it has not been worth producing the XC's. Many collectors or modelers I know own more than one XC or XB, I own three, count the Pajero of my son with it, four. I don't believe the economics-garbage they tell me. Take a look over the whole spectrum of modelling. People pay 200+ bucks for a 1:43 die cast car, paying 100+ bucks for tiny little etched parts in 1:35. I've worked in a plant where photo etched parts are produced, the big companies make a mint with those parts.

And to talk about the petition: A nice idea, I've signed in at the first one too, it ran until 1000 and the webspace was exhausted, as well the originator seemed to have lost the interest in it. We had contact one or two times, sad thing. He sent his list when it had about 750 Ssign in"'s, but Tamiya never answered. I've already contacted Tamiya Germany and Japan, as well as Kyosho Germany and Japan. Of five mails I recieved one reply. I don't want to put you down, but they aren't interested in our opinions, as long as it does not coincide with the main stream.

Just my experiences.

Keep up the good work, just in spite of it all!

Martin

[DerAlex 0]

Well - I would be happy if they release something that looks quite like the Bruiser (or Mounty) with a lader frame and some other realistic features.

Wild Willy 2 is ok for me altough there are many differences to WW1. I have always wanted a WW 1 and always dreamt of a 3Speed but the prices are horrible (I refer to used Models not NIB). Now it is quite possible that I will buy a NIB WW2 (by the way how much should I pay in Germany for it?).

It think it would not be fair to re-release a 1:1 Bruiser as this car has gained a collector status.

Imho the XR311 has not half the attraction to buyers compared with Bruiser or Mounty. They could also re-release a sonic figther (nothing against it) the effect would be the same -> no buyer.

[DJTheo 2]

quote:Now it is quite possible that I will buy a NIB WW2 (by the way how much should I pay in Germany for it?).

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You could get the WW2 in some shops in Germany for only 99EUR.

[TamiyaMan 5]

Keep up the effort - All companies bend under enough pressure. I signed your petition.

[WillyChang 1814]

quote:Originally posted by darryn1

The only true re-release so far has been the XR-311.......

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"Dyna Storm" ? []

[WillyChang 1814]

quote:Originally posted by urban warrior

And to talk about the petition: A nice idea, I've signed in at the first one too, it ran until 1000 and the webspace was exhausted, as well the originator seemed to have lost the interest in it. We had contact one or two times, sad thing. He sent his list when it had about 750 Ssign in"'s, but Tamiya never answered. I've already contacted Tamiya Germany and Japan, as well as Kyosho Germany and Japan. Of five mails I recieved one reply.

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Hey Martin, do you have access to the list of the last petition? Think it was one of the RCMT fellas... just thinking what if maybe we could follow on from that and add newbies from here on too.

(I'm already signed up. [|)])

Then at regular intervals, we'll keep sending it in to Shizouka.

Can't hurt, what's the cost of a stamp anyway. Worth a try!!

[spiff84(2) 1]

hi. i love Tamiya, but can't claim to have any great knowledge about their history. However, from what i know tamiya always seemed to be the creator of every RC craze, and their designs are copied like mad by other companies. To do this they must have their finger on the pulse and know what people want. I'm sure they must also know what a huge fan base their old models have, and they know that this fact lets them sell more new models too: the first Tamiya i bought was a Baja Champ: a nice car but what made me chose this over any other make's models was the fact it was Tamiya, and i always wanted a Tamiya car.

The old Tamiya cars are so collectable that it must be getting to a stage where most are in the hands of collectors that will never sell. (pauses while trying to remember if there was a point i was trying to get across... oh yeah) so it must be in Tamiya's interest to continually produce models that people will grow up wanting and loving, not like the thousands of cars with just different body shells, good cars though they are. And a petition or two (or hundreds) should point them in the right direction for just the type of cars people want and that will secure the love of new generations. Just my opinion, i will post this quick before i change my mind and realise i talking rubbish.

[AkihabaraMallrat(2) 0]

quote:Originally posted by spiff84

However, from what i know tamiya always seemed to be the creator of every RC craze, and their designs are copied like mad by other companies.

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I have to disagree with you here. While Tamiya was instrumental in the development of electric rc cars and was at the forefront of the touring car craze, they have often been behind others in many fundamental ways. Kyosho and AYK (till they stopped production) were generally well ahead of Tamiya in terms of engineering (check Darryn's site). Tamiya took forever to issue a nitro car (the first came out by the early 70's) and they havnt been as experimental as Kyosho (1/8 F1 cars, Go Karts, off road bikes etc etc)

These days look how successful Kyosho has been with the Mini-z's or the Inferno, something Tamiya has yet to provide competition for. The Terra Chrusher is a response to the success of other manufacturers nitro monster trucks.

What Tamiya has always had that has made them successful is very good marketing, packaging and popular body shells.

Im not trying to put Tamiya down but you have to give other manufacturers credit where is their due

[Wireless 34]

When it comes to the manufacture of kits such as Tamiya's, be they plastic or metal all the money is in the development and tooling, especially the castings and injection mouldings. Some of my work colleagues are specialist toolmakers and are heavily involved in injection moulding and thermoforming. I showed them my replacement 959 body and they reckoned the cost to manufacture would be around 25 to 50 pence (50-80 cents) each and the cost of making the tool £500 - £1000 ($800 - $1600). Injection mouldings cost a little more to produce but not significantly. Nobody realistically thinks that after a production run Tamiya just throw all the tools away do they...? Of course not, they are far too valuable. To take these tools back out and remake kits would be a very simple thing for them to do. I expect that when Tamiya cannot sell all the kits they make when production is at 100%, they will listen and perhaps remanufacture some of the older kits or base new models on the older tools as specials.

Roop

[spiff84(2) 1]

in reply to Mallrat, i bow to your greater knowledge, clearly Tamiya weren't as cutting edge as i thought they were [:I]. But weren't the Tamtech series similar to Mini-Zs, and lanched before them (i could be totally wrong, i own neither of these series). I realise that Tamiya were behind when it came to Fuel cars, however i got the impression they weren't that keen on the idea of them: it says this in their 1991 catalogue, and in others: "powered by strong electric motors, they (Tamiya RC cars) can run outdoors without noise or pollution" you can't claim that about fuel cars. Also IMHO one of the great things about Tamiya cars is the building of such a wonderful piece of engineering, from what i have seen (and i don't own one, so forgive me if i talking rubbish) fuel cars look a bit more like slotting together of bits of engines, not the same kind of involvement you get in building a Tamiya electric car.

[AkihabaraMallrat(2) 0]

Mini-z's are quite different from Tamtechs, for one thing Mini-z's are RTR. And Kyosho's 1/20 baja bug series came out around 5 years before the Tamtechs.

While,say a Terra Crusher is pretty much ready to run, building a TGX or TGR takes about the same amount of work as a battery operated kit.

[RETRO R/C 59]

Not ganging up here on anyone at all [] - however :

Kyosho released "MICRO" scale fully proportional vehicles WELL before anyone with their "Little Sports"......have a look at my site under "Small Scale" []

As I have said on many occasions - even though Tamiya make a very good product.......they have ALWAYS been superior marketers of their product. I dont think it is always wise to suggest that they are the "best". (I am not saying anyone here has said that yet).

It has to be said that Tamiya were not the firts manufacturer to produce an R/c car of decent performance either......there were 1/8th I.C cars racing before they even started ! The same goes for 1/12th scale electric racing too.......even some of the really early Kyosho buggies pre date the Tamiya 934. (I will try and dig up some photo's of these for you).....

Cheers

Darryn

[spiff84(2) 1]

lol, i wrong [:I], been a bad day, broke my Astute and talked a load of rubbish, ah well. As for petitions though, er... yes

[urban warrior 359]

Hi all,

hey spiff, no need to feel bad. Nobody knows everything. I am only relatively good informed about Tamiya models, but I am losing interest of gaining knowledge from year to year. I had to decide between Tamiya and Kyosho in my early years of R/Cing. And as I saw Kyoshos "Rattle-Chain-Models" I was really fast determined to buy a Tamiya. OK, there were a lot of other arguments for me, since my first R/C was the Bruiser, in which model to buy, but Tamiya had the better edge. Genuine Robbe or Graupner cars were either non-existent or just garbage, so Kyosho was supplier for these companies. But my way was clear.

I guess Tamiya had some points where they always were ahead of others, nobody ever made manuals like Tamiya did, or I have never seen them. But the Terra Crusher is a good example to show, that making a copy (T-MAXX), improving it a little bit, and ride on the same wave, can make some money. Normally I don't like "covering" an original, but since T-MAXX and Terra Crusher are gas powered, I am not interested in that issue, I keep my E-MAXX.

And what refers to the petition, I may try to look for the e-mail addy of the originator, but I can't give you some hopes. Below is the link to the site with the old petition. I don't know what remained.

http://rcbuilder.homestead.com/RCTINT.html

You may try to contact the originator. I am a little bit tired of writing mails and receiving no or weak response. In this petition I found very interesting feedbacks of the signers. One of them stated to have built a little "World" for his Mountaineer, with trees and buildings. I wrote him a mail, but he never replied.

Regards

Martin

P.S. I guess that's a signature.

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[TamiyaMan 5]

I am in the casting and polymer business and I'm afraid the $costs posted earlier are not even remotely close to remotely approaching the actual cost of injection molding tooling. But it really doesn't matter anymore - because the Bruiser casting and polymer tooling should indeed have been paid off long ago.

Resurrect the old petition. Put it on line here and let's get started adding to it and publicizing the effort. I realize from the other posts here it didn't work the first time - but to quote a great man from your side of the ocean:

"Never Never Never Quit" - Winston Churchill

[SJoerD 2]

Where is the petition, I wanna sign! []

Or should I make sure not to sign so my Mounty will gain value? [}] Naah...! []