The Tamiya Super Avante #58696 Information and Pictures

[DaveBuildsRC 219]

23 hours ago, beetleman said:

 

The car is hopped up with the slipper clutch and aluminum diff nuts. The slipper is not loose so no power loss there. Another confusing issue  - the slipper instructions say to use with 48 pitch pinion, and it meshes perfectly with the kit supplied pinion, which means the kit supplied pinion and spur are 48 pitch, right? So why does the car manual say "use module 06 pinion gear" in the setting up section on page 29?

 

 

The included pinion is 0.6 you need to get a steel or hard anodized 48p pinion or you may ruin the slipper. 

[beetleman 51]

46 minutes ago, DaveBuildsRC said:

The included pinion is 0.6 you need to get a steel or hard anodized 48p pinion or you may ruin the slipper. 

OMG. I will. But it's very strange that they would do that. The counter gear of the slipper matches the car's gears but the spur doesn't? 

I already ran the car as is and it ran perfect.. does this mean that 06 and 48 are very close? I checked the spur after reading your comment and it looks perfect with no wear or damage.

[DaveBuildsRC 219]

17 minutes ago, beetleman said:

OMG. I will. But it's very strange that they would do that. The counter gear of the slipper matches the car's gears but the spur doesn't? 

I already ran the car as is and it ran perfect.. does this mean that 06 and 48 are very close? I checked the spur after reading your comment and it looks perfect with no wear or damage.

Yes very close similar. i would still get a 48p they are like 5 bucks. start with a 48p 25 or 26 and you should see a speed improvement.

[beetleman 51]

37 minutes ago, DaveBuildsRC said:

 very close similar. i would still get a 48p they are like 5 bucks. start with a 48p 25 or 26 and you should see a speed improvement.

I left a good clearance between the pinion and spur, perhaps that's why no harm was done. Now regarding a bigger pinion, the motor manual recommends FDR of 8.9-11.0 for a buggy with the 15.5 motor. Looking at the car's manual, 20T will give 9.10 and 21T will 8.67, so 20T is the highest without exceeding the recommendation.. You're talking 25 or 26.. Am I just a nerd or won't those cause overheating and potential shut off?

 

 

[DaveBuildsRC 219]

1 hour ago, beetleman said:

I left a good clearance between the pinion and spur, perhaps that's why no harm was done. Now regarding a bigger pinion, the motor manual recommends FDR of 8.9-11.0 for a buggy with the 15.5 motor. Looking at the car's manual, 20T will give 9.10 and 21T will 8.67, so 20T is the highest without exceeding the recommendation.. You're talking 25 or 26.. Am I just a nerd or won't those cause overheating and potential shut off?

 

Love the action shots!

ok try a 20t 48p to start most hobby stores carry 48p so no need to order online unless no hobby stores around i guess.

 

 

[beetleman 51]

I just realized the slipper spur is 79 teeth (vs the stock which is 70), so using the formula in the manual (spur/pinion)x2.6 it seems that with a 23 pinion I'll get an FDR of 8.9 which is right smack in the recommended range on the faster end! So looking for it I see Tamiya offers 2 different sets of 22 and 23 tooth pinions: item 50357 and 54217, to make life complicated. Anyone knows what's the difference between the two? Could it be aluminum vs steel? (judging by the colors in the photos)

[DaveBuildsRC 219]

17 minutes ago, beetleman said:

I just realized the slipper spur is 79 teeth (vs the stock which is 70), so using the formula in the manual (spur/pinion)x2.6 it seems that with a 23 pinion I'll get an FDR of 8.9 which is right smack in the recommended range on the faster end! So looking for it I see Tamiya offers 2 different sets of 22 and 23 tooth pinions: item 50357 and 54217, to make life complicated. Anyone knows what's the difference between the two? Could it be aluminum vs steel? (judging by the colors in the photos)

dont buy tamiya they aluminum. get something like this

Robinson Racing Steel 48P Pinion Gear (3.17mm Bore) (12T) [RRP1012] - AMain Hobbies

[beetleman 51]

I ended up buying the Robinson 48P 23T locally, the drivetrain is a tad quieter now (or did I convince myself?). Also learned something new - the 48P is imperial and the 06 is very similar but metric. When I expressed my frustration to the store owner on why would Tamiya make a hopup for the TD4 and use a different pitch spur gear (to make you buy more parts?), his theory was that since 48P is more delicate than the 06, it's faster, and that's the idea being a hopup... interesting. 

Some thoughts about the car - the battery swap procedure is madness (especially unpleasant at the field), dust gets in the pinion/spur area even after following the instructions with the sponge sheet, and the only way the battery fits is with low profile bullet connectors, and that's on top of the required low profile steering servo! BUT... having said all that, it's a Tamiya, and a modern one at that, which means quality that surpasses even what we've gotten used to from them. The hardware, the fitment, the plastics... amazing fun build. The car drives like a dream, sticks to the curvature of the track like it's glued to it. I'd buy it again without a second thought.

 

[BloodClod 389]

Hey guys, finally had some time to try some ideas I've been toying around with for the TD4. There are a few things I'd like to improve on for this car (like better dust proofing...) but over the weekend I designed a battery mounting system.

To be honest, the stock system isn't really that bad IMO, after some getting used to it really isn't that hard. That said, I wanted to see if I could work out a system that:
(i) would easily fit a shorty pack
(ii) would be easier to install and remove (hopefully without a hex driver or even snap pins)
(iii) would allow me to still run the driver figure (which I really like)
(iv) would not require any cutting or mods to the chassis itself

Here's my solution. First, I designed and printed a new top brace that gives me direct access to the lipos 4mm terminals.
It also allows me to run the driver figure - woohoo!

 

On the other side I have a new battery retaining system that involves 2 3D printed parts - a bar that swings open give me access to the battery cover and secondly a battery cover that holds the battery in.

 

The bar swings open and the battery slides right out. This system uses the stock holes on the chassis available so I don't need to make any new holes or mods to the chassis.

 

Why did I not use the stock battery cover? Well... it was a bit too thick to fit the shorty and I didn't want to shave it down. This new piece is just the right thickness to retain the lipo snugly.

 

Just thought I'd share my version of a battery mounting solution with you guys. The availability of 3D printing has really changed what we can do with our hobby these days.

One added plus to this mounting system is that the space in front of the chassis next to the steering servo is now empty so when I get the chance I will relocate the ESC there for a cleaner look and lower center of gravity.

Let me know what you think. I have some mods to test out to improve the dust seal of the gearbox too - this is a real pet peeve of mine with offroad cars with gearboxes that don't effectively seal out dirt. Hopefully the mods work and I'll post them up in a future post.

[Cynan 520]

2 hours ago, BloodClod said:

Hey guys, finally had some time to try some ideas I've been toying around with for the TD4. There are a few things I'd like to improve on for this car (like better dust proofing...) but over the weekend I designed a battery mounting system.

To be honest, the stock system isn't really that bad IMO, after some getting used to it really isn't that hard. That said, I wanted to see if I could work out a system that:
(i) would easily fit a shorty pack
(ii) would be easier to install and remove (hopefully without a hex driver or even snap pins)
(iii) would allow me to still run the driver figure (which I really like)
(iv) would not require any cutting or mods to the chassis itself

Here's my solution. First, I designed and printed a new top brace that gives me direct access to the lipos 4mm terminals.
It also allows me to run the driver figure - woohoo!

 

On the other side I have a new battery retaining system that involves 2 3D printed parts - a bar that swings open give me access to the battery cover and secondly a battery cover that holds the battery in.

 

The bar swings open and the battery slides right out. This system uses the stock holes on the chassis available so I don't need to make any new holes or mods to the chassis.

 

Why did I not use the stock battery cover? Well... it was a bit too thick to fit the shorty and I didn't want to shave it down. This new piece is just the right thickness to retain the lipo snugly.

 

Just thought I'd share my version of a battery mounting solution with you guys. The availability of 3D printing has really changed what we can do with our hobby these days.

One added plus to this mounting system is that the space in front of the chassis next to the steering servo is now empty so when I get the chance I will relocate the ESC there for a cleaner look and lower center of gravity.

Let me know what you think. I have some mods to test out to improve the dust seal of the gearbox too - this is a real pet peeve of mine with offroad cars with gearboxes that don't effectively seal out dirt. Hopefully the mods work and I'll post them up in a future post.

Love it! One thing I found was that mounting the ESC behind the driver meant I could not attach the plastic part that attaches to the shell that sits behind the driver as there was just not enough room. This solution looks ideal.

[Howards 874]

Tony’s Tamiya has / had the DB02 metal bevel gear set in stock…which I believe is also a replacement for the TD4 bevels. 
 

I bought a set. We shall find out.

[Badcrumble 4432]

58 minutes ago, Howards said:

Tony’s Tamiya has / had the DB02 metal bevel gear set in stock…which I believe is also a replacement for the TD4 bevels. 
 

I bought a set. We shall find out.

Good find. I can't even find them in a search 

[BloodClod 389]

Here's a revised electronics layout on the TD4. I think this is possible with a minimum of shaving down battery retainers at the sides of the car. Overall, I think it's a nice clean look and does away with the need for clips and screws for the battery removal/install. Simplified steering setup should provide slightly improved steering response too.

Weather has not allowed me to run this yet but I expect it should do fine with the overall lower CG.

I also bought a set of non-tamiya hop ups - the front cantilevers, steering bellcranks, steering bridge and also servo mounts are all nice blue aluminum parts but totally non-tamiya. They also cost a total of US$20. If anyone is interested, the finishing of the parts is pretty decent and the aluminum, though probably softer than what Tamiya should be using - is probably gonna work fine. The problem with them is they come fitted with terrible bearings and if you want them to work right there's some elbow grease needed to get those out and to fit some proper ones. I'll provide more info on what I had to do if anyone's interested.

[pvaidya 0]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:46 AM, BloodClod said:

Hey guys, finally had some time to try some ideas I've been toying around with for the TD4. There are a few things I'd like to improve on for this car (like better dust proofing...) but over the weekend I designed a battery mounting system.

Just thought I'd share my version of a battery mounting solution with you guys. The availability of 3D printing has really changed what we can do with our hobby these days.

One added plus to this mounting system is that the space in front of the chassis next to the steering servo is now empty so when I get the chance I will relocate the ESC there for a cleaner look and lower center of gravity.

Let me know what you think. I have some mods to test out to improve the dust seal of the gearbox too - this is a real pet peeve of mine with offroad cars with gearboxes that don't effectively seal out dirt. Hopefully the mods work and I'll post them up in a future post.

Hi, would you guys who have designed the 3d printed parts be as so kind to share the stl files? Would love to pint and try them out myself!

[EsotericRC 99]

Just ordered a TD4 Super Avante for my 10 year old son to build as his first kit (with my supervision of course), so i'm glad I found this thread. Lots of great info in here. My son actually likes the box art colors of the Super Avante since his favorite color is yellow and his second favorite is blue, so I got him the kit with the prepainted body so there is one less step for him to do before he can take it out for a rip. Will probably buy a spare body eventually as well so we can do a better looking custom paint job on it.

Plan is to build it as designed so that my son can follow the instructions to the "t" (with a few small exceptions). Then, once he gets to drive it for a bit, and has some build experience under his belt, we can then look to improve upon what's there. 

The exceptions i'm referring to are obvious shortcomings like the plastic ball diff T-nuts that are prone to stripping. Of course, it seems that everyone is currently out of stock on the aluminum diff nut Hop Ups, so I might have to just spring for the gear diffs instead. Would hate to build it with the plastic T-nuts to only have them strip shortly after. What are people's experience with running the Tamiya gear diffs in place of the ball diffs in the TD4?

[Cynan 520]

I’ve some other hop ups spare if you need any.

[EsotericRC 99]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:46 AM, BloodClod said:

Hey guys, finally had some time to try some ideas I've been toying around with for the TD4. There are a few things I'd like to improve on for this car (like better dust proofing...) but over the weekend I designed a battery mounting system.

To be honest, the stock system isn't really that bad IMO, after some getting used to it really isn't that hard. That said, I wanted to see if I could work out a system that:
(i) would easily fit a shorty pack
(ii) would be easier to install and remove (hopefully without a hex driver or even snap pins)
(iii) would allow me to still run the driver figure (which I really like)
(iv) would not require any cutting or mods to the chassis itself

Here's my solution. First, I designed and printed a new top brace that gives me direct access to the lipos 4mm terminals.
It also allows me to run the driver figure - woohoo!

On the other side I have a new battery retaining system that involves 2 3D printed parts - a bar that swings open give me access to the battery cover and secondly a battery cover that holds the battery in.

The bar swings open and the battery slides right out. This system uses the stock holes on the chassis available so I don't need to make any new holes or mods to the chassis.

Why did I not use the stock battery cover? Well... it was a bit too thick to fit the shorty and I didn't want to shave it down. This new piece is just the right thickness to retain the lipo snugly.

Just thought I'd share my version of a battery mounting solution with you guys. The availability of 3D printing has really changed what we can do with our hobby these days.

One added plus to this mounting system is that the space in front of the chassis next to the steering servo is now empty so when I get the chance I will relocate the ESC there for a cleaner look and lower center of gravity.

Let me know what you think. I have some mods to test out to improve the dust seal of the gearbox too - this is a real pet peeve of mine with offroad cars with gearboxes that don't effectively seal out dirt. Hopefully the mods work and I'll post them up in a future post.

Loving what you've done there for the battery. Once our TD4 kit gets here and my son finishes building it, will definitely be looking to do a transverse mounted shorty LiPo like that. 3D printing is the other hobby that I got into about a year ago (have a Prusa Mk2S), so will likely print out something similar.

On 6/17/2022 at 12:08 PM, pvaidya said:

Hi, would you guys who have designed the 3d printed parts be as so kind to share the stl files? Would love to pint and try them out myself!

If BloodClod isn't willing to share his stl files (which is 100% his perogative as the person who spent the time to design it), and you don't want to spend the time to try to design one yourself, FYI there is a clip-on battery door option for the TD4 shorty packs on Thingiverse. Not sure if someone on here was involved in it's design, but it can be found here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5327698

[EsotericRC 99]

2 hours ago, Cynan said:

I’ve some other hop ups spare if you need any.

Man, if these were in the US i'd seriously consider buying them off of you...

Anyway, a slight update to what I had posted previously. The TD4 kit for my son is en route and should arrive tomorrow. After reading this thread and scouring for people's experiences with the TD4, I also ordered 2 TA06 Steel Gear Diff units (#54471) that Tamiya lists under Hop Ups for the TD4 (since the aluminum T-nut kits are currently unavailable) as well as the front CVDs (#22028). The diffs should get here tomorrow as well, and the CVD's on Saturday. Figured i'd hate to have my son build it, only to strip the diff T-nuts or lose a front dogbone shortly after. Not gonna be running it on a brushless setup, yet...and will likely build it using some older electronics I still have. Probably an LRP F1 Pro ESC and a Trinity P2K Pro (from about 2004-ish) for now. Will go brushless down the road, after my son gets to enjoy it a bit...

[BuggyGuy 1144]

6 hours ago, EsotericRC said:

Man, if these were in the US i'd seriously consider buying them off of you...

Anyway, a slight update to what I had posted previously. The TD4 kit for my son is en route and should arrive tomorrow. After reading this thread and scouring for people's experiences with the TD4, I also ordered 2 TA06 Steel Gear Diff units (#54471) that Tamiya lists under Hop Ups for the TD4 (since the aluminum T-nut kits are currently unavailable) as well as the front CVDs (#22028). The diffs should get here tomorrow as well, and the CVD's on Saturday. Figured i'd hate to have my son build it, only to strip the diff T-nuts or lose a front dogbone shortly after. Not gonna be running it on a brushless setup, yet...and will likely build it using some older electronics I still have. Probably an LRP F1 Pro ESC and a Trinity P2K Pro (from about 2004-ish) for now. Will go brushless down the road, after my son gets to enjoy it a bit...

Enjoy - it's an interesting build and always good to get the kids into it. Some of the plastics are a bit tough so a good set of hex drivers would be handy for the build if the little one is going to be involved.

The gear diffs are a good choice for the TD4, and I'd you up the power at all a slipper clutch kit might be worth adding (gear diffs will not slip in the same way that the stock ball diffs would).

Space for electrics is tight in the TD4 - make sure you have a low profile servo handy if you don't already

[EsotericRC 99]

1 hour ago, BuggyGuy said:

Enjoy - it's an interesting build and always good to get the kids into it. Some of the plastics are a bit tough so a good set of hex drivers would be handy for the build if the little one is going to be involved.

The gear diffs are a good choice for the TD4, and I'd you up the power at all a slipper clutch kit might be worth adding (gear diffs will not slip in the same way that the stock ball diffs would).

Space for electrics is tight in the TD4 - make sure you have a low profile servo handy if you don't already

Thanks. I do have a good set of hex drivers, but also ordered a set for my son to add to the desktop tool set I previously put together for him. Am hoping to let him do as much of the build as possible, and just overseeing and directing when he needs help. I built my first one (original Tamiya Frog) when I was about his age and didn't have anyone to help guide me, so hopefully he can do the same with little intervention from me. 

Good to hear that the gear diffs are a good upgrade for the TD4. That whole debacle with the plastic T-nuts in the ball diffs IS kinda disappointing, but might as well take the opportunity to upgrade! Heh. Regarding the slipper clutch, I actually forgot to mention that I did also order the slipper clutch for it as well. I figured that it wouldn't hurt to have and I know my son definitely wants to jump it (we are building a small dirt track in the backyard) so the slipper wil be great to help relieve stress on the drivetrain on the landings. Eventually, we'll push more power through it too, so...

It does look pretty tight in terms of electronics. Don't have a low profile servo handy yet, but will probably swing by the one hobby shop left in my area to pick one up. They don't carry Tamiya products (mainly Traxxas trucks and other RTR trucks and truggies, etc), so I couldn't buy the TD4 kit from them, but they'd be good for stuff like electronics, servos, etc. Got any suggestions on a good low profile servo that would be well suited to the TD4? Eventually, I do plan on relocating the servo to the other side of the chassis once I switch to a transverse shorty pack, but the low profile servo would be needed still anyway. 

[BuggyGuy 1144]

20 hours ago, EsotericRC said:

...
It does look pretty tight in terms of electronics. Don't have a low profile servo handy yet, but will probably swing by the one hobby shop left in my area to pick one up. They don't carry Tamiya products (mainly Traxxas trucks and other RTR trucks and truggies, etc), so I couldn't buy the TD4 kit from them, but they'd be good for stuff like electronics, servos, etc. Got any suggestions on a good low profile servo that would be well suited to the TD4? Eventually, I do plan on relocating the servo to the other side of the chassis once I switch to a transverse shorty pack, but the low profile servo would be needed still anyway. 

Servo wise - I would go for something with metal gears with decent torque, maybe one of:

- CoreRC 9009LP (good value)

- Savox SC1251mg or SC1252mg (though any low profile metal geared servo of theirs should be fine for a TD4

 

[EsotericRC 99]

15 hours ago, BuggyGuy said:

Servo wise - I would go for something with metal gears with decent torque, maybe one of:

- CoreRC 9009LP (good value)

- Savox SC1251mg or SC1252mg (though any low profile metal geared servo of theirs should be fine for a TD4

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Will likely go with a Savox SC1251MG-BE. Hopefully the one LHS that is left locally carries them. Also realized, from looking through this thread, that the TD4 Slipper requires 48p pinion gears instead of what comes in the kit (0.6 mod or AV). Interesting. Had I known that previously (my fault for not researching more before ordering stuff, heh), I woulda ordered some Robinson Racing 48p steel pinions. Guess it's a good thing that 48p is more common and it's way more likely that my LHS will have some 48p pinions in stock. They definitely don't have anything in 0.6 mod or anything Tamiya. Gonna try to swing by today or tomorrow to see what they have, since the TD4 kit is supposed to arrive today via FedEx...

[joeling 1961]

Muahahaha

[Badcrumble 4432]

3 hours ago, joeling said:

Muahahaha

Nice. What I need before I start my build.

[BuggyGuy 1144]

On 7/2/2022 at 4:57 PM, Badcrumble said:

Nice. What I need before I start my build.

Same here - not been able to find them in stock anywhere!